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Old 05-06-2011, 02:18 PM   #16
mcvey
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

As Langford fought .

Jeannette 12 times, and only stopped him once.

McVey 15 times, and only stopped him twice ,once when McVey refused to continue ,claiming a foul.

Battling Jim Johnson 12 times ,and only stopped him once.

I find it baffling why some one would say Langford kos Johnson.

Did he not have better skills , and better defence than any of these three ?
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Going under a fantasy assumption that he could fight the top three contenders which he shied away from as champion in one year, here are my predictions.

1 ) He will lose a match, and the title along the way.

So who does it.

Langford would be my pick to KO Johnson. No way Johnson could take Langford's punches or out work him. 70/30 for Langford

Jeanette did pretty well when he was a novice vs. Johnson. He could outwork Johnson, like Marvin Hart did. 60/40 match for Johnson.

McVey was a crude slugger. Although its dangerous to judge a fighter with 3-4 rounds of flim, Mcvey was rather limited, clumsy, and much to my surprise, a little gun shy about exchanges in his Jim " battling " Johnson match. I think Johnson wins a decision here. 80/20 for Johnson.

Post 1910, I think Johnson losses to Jeanette.
Yet in 18 fights with Langford he was only stopped twice ,once when he refused to continue claiming a foul ?

3-1-1 Novice Jeannette stopped 47 fight Langford in 8 rds.
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

Light heavyweight Jeff Clark fought Langford 10 times, he was stopped twice, won 2, and drew 3.
Sandy Ferguson fought Langford twice , he lost one decision ,and drew the other ,both over 12 rds.
Young Peter Jackson fought Langford 6 times lost 4 by dec over 15 rds ,and 20 rds, drew 1 fight, and stopped Langford in the other in 5 rds. He was never stopped by Langford, and he was a middle weight.
Yet Langford stops prime Jack Johnson?
I don't think so.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
As Langford fought .

Jeannette 12 times, and only stopped him once.

McVey 15 times, and only stopped him twice ,once when McVey refused to continue ,claiming a foul.

Battling Jim Johnson 12 times ,and only stopped him once.

I find it baffling why some one would say Langford kos Johnson.

Did he not have better skills , and better defence than any of these three ?
Not to dismiss your point, but Langford wore the cuffs a lot and we will probably never know how much.

There was a nod and a wink among sports writers, that even some of the top fighters of the day would not meet him unless certain asurances were made.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Not to dismiss your point, but Langford wore the cuffs a lot and we will probably never know how much.

There was a nod and a wink among sports writers, that even some of the top fighters of the day would not meet him unless certain asurances were made.
I would not disagree with you J, but it is my understanding that these would have been black v white contests,which ,except for the two fights with Ferguson, would have not relevance to the fights I mentioned .
Would you agree?

I am in no way demeaning Langford's power, but one poster ,has said Langford kos Johnson ,as though it is a given, this to me, is patently ridiculous
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
I would not disagree with you J, but it is my understanding that these would have been black v white contests,which ,except for the two fights with Ferguson, would have not relevance to the fights I mentioned .
Would you agree?
Do you have any evidence to suggest it is only in black v white contests, or is this just the hunch? My opinion is that fighters who wear the cuffs do so more on the basis of who makes the money for them(and it wasnt always the white fighter). For example, i have read things like Langford was Wills' meal ticket. Or allegations about cuffs being worn between Blackburn and Langford (hotly disputed by blackburn though). I am not certain, but i think that NDs are probably far less important in them days, particularly newspaper decisions and i dont think it was limited in any way to black v White contests. In fact, i am quite sure that there were several cases of the white fighter wearing the cuffs against the black fighter that we dont know about.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Do you have any evidence to suggest it is only in black v white contests, or is this just the hunch? My opinion is that fighters who wear the cuffs do so more on the basis of who makes the money for them(and it wasnt always the white fighter). For example, i have read things like Langford was Wills' meal ticket. Or allegations about cuffs being worn between Blackburn and Langford (hotly disputed by blackburn though). I am not certain, but i think that NDs are probably far less important in them days, particularly newspaper decisions and i dont think it was limited in any way to black v White contests. In fact, i am quite sure that there were several cases of the white fighter wearing the cuffs against the black fighter that we dont know about.
None of the contests I mentioned have either, Wills, or Blackburn as a participant.
I am not sure,neither am I sure that Langford, did not have the cuffs on when he met Johnson ,and had his nose broken, both eyes cut .and was floored twice. It is just my understanding, as I said.

N.B.None of the 55 fights I referred to were of the NWS no dec variety

I think I shall nick name you D. A. from now on.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
None of the contests I mentioned have either, Wills, or Blackburn as a participant.
I am not sure,neither am I sure that Langford, did not have the cuffs on when he met Johnson ,and had his nose broken, both eyes cut .and was floored twice. It is just my understanding, as I said.

N.B.None of the 55 fights I referred to were of the NWS no dec variety

I think I shall nick name you D. A. from now on.
I put a question mark at the end of my sentence because i was asking you a question regarding your comment that your understanding was that blacks wore the cuffs against white fighters not black fighters. I just wondered whether there was any truth in that or if it was just a blind guess.

I dont think that would be true. The 2 fights i mentioned are black v black suspicious fights, off hand at this early stage in the morning i cant think of too many others. I just wondered if you had more evidence, or if you based it just on a hunch, like i think you may have confirmed in your answer. And i was just expanding on some of the implications for the time not really making a statement one way or the other about the particular fight in question. Incidentally, when i said ND fights, i meant more fights that went the distance as opposed to just no decision fights.

I am not
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
I put a question mark at the end of my sentence because i was asking you a question regarding your comment that your understanding was that blacks wore the cuffs against white fighters not black fighters. I just wondered whether there was any truth in that or if it was just a blind guess.

I dont think that would be true. The 2 fights i mentioned are black v black suspicious fights, off hand at this early stage in the morning i cant think of too many others. I just wondered if you had more evidence, or if you based it just on a hunch, like i think you may have confirmed in your answer. And i was just expanding on some of the implications for the time not really making a statement one way or the other about the particular fight in question. Incidentally, when i said ND fights, i meant more fights that went the distance as opposed to just no decision fights.

I am not
You are not what?
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

Sorry, internet is playing havoc at the moment.

I am not.... I am not... I am not remembering what i was about to say. lol

Maybe if i just say that

I am not ....Mendoza.

There that should do the job.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:48 PM   #26
mcvey
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
Sorry, internet is playing havoc at the moment.

I am not.... I am not... I am not remembering what i was about to say. lol

Maybe if i just say that

I am not ....Mendoza.

There that should do the job.
I know you are not Mendoza, you are far too even handed,and objective, to be him.
I respect your posts ,it is just that I find you very circular in your arguments.
P S.The D.A.refers to Devil's Advocate.Which I find you have a tendency towards, no disrespect intended.
Time for my bed, Good night
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:43 AM   #27
Mendoza
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Yet in 18 fights with Langford he was only stopped twice ,once when he refused to continue claiming a foul ?

3-1-1 Novice Jeannette stopped 47 fight Langford in 8 rds.
We are talking about prime version sof Langford, Jeanette, and McVey here you dolt!

Not the early version of a 156 pound Langford, a green Jeanette with less then 5 fights, or a teenage Sam McVey.

Stopping Langford in his prime as a mature heavyweight is something Johnson would not do.

PS: How come you don't post as Boucher anynmore.
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:27 AM   #28
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

Johnson at only 185lb was not yet mature when he fought Langford. he later grew to a hulking 210lb in his prime.
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

Given all of the available evidence, i think he would beat them all.
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:06 AM   #30
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Default Re: If The 1910 Johnson had met prime Mcvey, Jeannette , Langford?

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Johnson at only 185lb was not yet mature when he fought Langford. he later grew to a hulking 210lb in his prime.
Hulking 210 pounds? This would make modern athletes laugh.
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