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Old 05-07-2011, 12:41 PM   #16
techks
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

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Originally Posted by MrOliverKlozoff View Post
I barely even count the rematch for Peter. I mean, he won clearly, yes, but I mean count it as much of an accomplishment. That version of Toney was WAY off, from what I remember. He didn't seem to have his timing, coordination, speed, reflexes, whatever. It was terrible. And because of what Peter's done since, or hasn't done rather, I find it hard to believe is wasn't more Toney being bad than Sam being good.
Agree with you man. Toney had his moments against Peter in the rematch but many rounds neither man really did much, it was boring. I give Peter credit for rematching him but Toney really had his last hurrah in the first fight. The second fight was awful to watch.
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

He was pretty slick.
It didn't help him against Roy Jones though.
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

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He was pretty slick.
It didn't help him against Roy Jones though.
He still made him miss more than I've seen a prime RJJ miss before. RJJ was great himself too.
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

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Holyfield was shot I do admit but it was a top performance from Toney and Holy did have his moments such as tagging him with a few left hooks.

If Holyfield was a better favourite,it was based off of his name and Toney being untested at the weight.Tyson was a betting favourite in his last two fights,too.


Holyfield had looked completely shot going into that fight and his performance against Larry Donald after this fight was so pitiful that the NYSAC revoked his license to fight in the state.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

It might have been al bernstein that said on one of toney's fights that roach said he passed out twice to make weight for the drake thadzi fight and that he would not fight at 168 anymore.
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

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Originally Posted by Goyourownway View Post
If Holyfield was a better favourite,it was based off of his name and Toney being untested at the weight.Tyson was a betting favourite in his last two fights,too.


Holyfield had looked completely shot going into that fight and his performance against Larry Donald after this fight was so pitiful that the NYSAC revoked his license to fight in the state.
True but 5 years later Holyfield still won a belt even a shot stage, unlike Tyson(Valuev was probably the worst hvy champion of recent times but still). That fight was a very stinky robbery. It's a shame Holyfield goes on but if it pays his bills/child support then I can't be too unhappy.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

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WTF? We all have bad or lousy nights for cryin' out loud.... Again, Jesus, Toney was weight-drained and limp as a dead man's dick against Tiberi and Toney looked like he just crawled outta bed against Thadzi yrs later....


MR.BILL
So because Toney has a style that is pleasing to the boxing purist, we allow him every excuse he wants.

He signed the contracts for 160 and 175 and he got his ass beat both times. Period.

A bad night is drawing against Sanderline Williams on your way up, not being ill-prepared as champion.
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

Did Toney weight hop more than anybody? This could definatly **** with a guys mind, right? I think he looked good at cruiserweight. I watched the Adolpho Washington fight of him last night . James just put on a clinic. He didn't ever knock Washington down, but he just completly outboxed , outclassed all the above to Washington. He pitched a shutout and what was weird to me is that Toney probably could've knocked him out at any point but didn't. It was plain and simple he knew and Roach knew that this was a fight in which he was obviously the better fighter and I bet the gameplan was to go into the the fight and not knock this guy out but to get some conditioning in and put on a show , refine his boxing skills. I ****ing love watching Toney fight when he brings it.
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

Lets see against who he was at his slickest :

Iran Barkley - some claim he was drained at 168 , when Toney won his title.

Charles Williams - another drained fighter at 168 , although Toney was drained too by that stage , but nonetheless , according to compubox , Williams outlanded Toney in most rounds .

Evander Holyfield - 41 years old at the time they fought , and in the middle of a losing streak after which he never fought in serious elite fights never again. Valuev , and probably Ibragimov carried Holyfield .


A few more of Toney's best wins :
Michael Nunn - drained at that stage at 160 , Nunn , like Williams , managed to outland Toney in most rounds , only in a different style.

Vassily Jirov - came out of 18 months layoff , not that I think it was important in its effect on the outcome. The scorecards surely were way more lopsided in Toney's favor than the fight actually was , but I can see why Toney won (the KD and I think a 13th round could have made it clearer)

I do reckon that Toney's chin is one of the best if not the best P4P.
Hagler was down at 160 too , but Hagler never went above that weight , let alone so far above.
I do reckon that Toney's technique is one of the most effective under the rules of boxing and I too am of the belief that under the rules of boxing and in a good (for him) condition , he would have beaten the grossly overrated cheater in Bernard Hopkins.
Roid Jones would have never signed the contract to fight Toney if he didn't know Toney was far from being able to fight at 168 by the time he signed the contract.
I also think Michael Nunn would have outpointed Toney in a not so telling manner if Nunn wasn't drained.
Barkley and Williams would have both fared better if they fought Toney at 175 , and if you think about Toney at 175 , it would probably have been far better.

In Toney's defense it can be argued he was drained against Reggie Johnson , David Tiberi and Drake Thadzi but was still very competitive .
Reggie Johnson fought quite a smart fight , and to this day remained the closest to stopping Toney , he charged after Toney rose from the KD , but was unable to finish the too tough Toney . I think watching this fight is one reason to why Roid never tried being aggressive at any point of their fight .
Toney took steroids but so did Roid , Evan Fields , Tyson , Mosley , Pacquiao , Ali (testosterone) , Vitali Klitschko and really almost everyone since the late 1980s I think , although some took them much earlier .
And then you have the sepparate question of HGH.
Donald Curry , another technical specialist was not able to remain unstopped , unlike Toney , so I think ranking Toney above Curry , which is underrated BTW , is safe.
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

Slickest fat guy I've ever seen.
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

Yes Holyfield was well past his best when Toney fought him, but i still think it was a good win...
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Lets see against who he was at his slickest :

Iran Barkley - some claim he was drained at 168 , when Toney won his title.

Charles Williams - another drained fighter at 168 , although Toney was drained too by that stage , but nonetheless , according to compubox , Williams outlanded Toney in most rounds .

Evander Holyfield - 41 years old at the time they fought , and in the middle of a losing streak after which he never fought in serious elite fights never again. Valuev , and probably Ibragimov carried Holyfield .


A few more of Toney's best wins :
Michael Nunn - drained at that stage at 160 , Nunn , like Williams , managed to outland Toney in most rounds , only in a different style.

Vassily Jirov - came out of 18 months layoff , not that I think it was important in its effect on the outcome. The scorecards surely were way more lopsided in Toney's favor than the fight actually was , but I can see why Toney won (the KD and I think a 13th round could have made it clearer)

I do reckon that Toney's chin is one of the best if not the best P4P.
Hagler was down at 160 too , but Hagler never went above that weight , let alone so far above.
I do reckon that Toney's technique is one of the most effective under the rules of boxing and I too am of the belief that under the rules of boxing and in a good (for him) condition , he would have beaten the grossly overrated cheater in Bernard Hopkins.
Roid Jones would have never signed the contract to fight Toney if he didn't know Toney was far from being able to fight at 168 by the time he signed the contract.
I also think Michael Nunn would have outpointed Toney in a not so telling manner if Nunn wasn't drained.
Barkley and Williams would have both fared better if they fought Toney at 175 , and if you think about Toney at 175 , it would probably have been far better.

In Toney's defense it can be argued he was drained against Reggie Johnson , David Tiberi and Drake Thadzi but was still very competitive .
Reggie Johnson fought quite a smart fight , and to this day remained the closest to stopping Toney , he charged after Toney rose from the KD , but was unable to finish the too tough Toney . I think watching this fight is one reason to why Roid never tried being aggressive at any point of their fight .
Toney took steroids but so did Roid , Evan Fields , Tyson , Mosley , Pacquiao , Ali (testosterone) , Vitali Klitschko and really almost everyone since the late 1980s I think , although some took them much earlier .
And then you have the sepparate question of HGH.
Donald Curry , another technical specialist was not able to remain unstopped , unlike Toney , so I think ranking Toney above Curry , which is underrated BTW , is safe.

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Old 05-07-2011, 10:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: How much of a slickster was James Toney?

So where does he rank on your personal all time list? As far as how much you like him and his style not rather where he deserves to actaully be. He's top 3 for me.
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