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Old 05-07-2011, 10:08 PM   #1
SonnyListonsJab
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Default Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

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"I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best," he told a reporter on the train going back to California. "I couldn't have hit him. No, I couldn't have reached him in a thousand years."- Jim Jeffries
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Mendoza, isthistrue?!!!
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Obviously he's never going to buy that. He refuses to believe anything written in the American papers the day after Johnson-Jim Johnson because there is no proof that the writer was in Paris...why the **** would he believe a Sports Illustrated article?
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Obviously he's never going to buy that. He refuses to believe anything written in the American papers the day after Johnson-Jim Johnson because there is no proof that the writer was in Paris...why the **** would he believe a Sports Illustrated article?
I am afraid you are correct.
If, on the other hand Jeffries had said ,"Yeah I would have whipped that big dinge easily 5 years ago".Mendoza would swallow it as gospel.
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Old 05-08-2011, 07:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Mendoza, isthistrue?!!!
No, it is not. Unfortunately some quotes have taken on a life of their own on the web. Which paper did Jeffries tell this to, and on what day? No one here can show the quote with the newspaper title and in context. If they can I'll give them props. The real truth is Jeffires flat out said right after the fight if he was younger, he would have won to the press in context.

Here's what Jeffries said right after the fight.
Quote:
" Had I met Johnson when I was in my prime the result would have been different-I would have beaten him. As it was, I wore myself down and was beaten as much by the effects of my own exertions as I was by Johnson's blows. "



Jeffries Own Story
Gives Johnson Credit
For A Square Victory

Defeated man insists he fought the best man he knew how
Regrets however that colored man hold championship title



SPECIAL TO THE POST-STANDARD*
RENO, Nev., July 4.—

I tried. That's all I ask credit for doing, -I was beaten fairly and squarely. I have no excuses to make. Let full credit be given Jack Johnson for his victory, He is a truly great fighter.

I would have remained the retired and undefeated heavy weight champion of the world, but for the fact that the American public demanded of me that I try . to take away the championship from a black man, I don't regret the fact of my defeat so much as I do that it was a negro that beat me, thereby establishing himself as the best man in the world.

I would rather have been defeated three times over by a man of my own race than being the means of placing a negro in this place. It was to tear him from this honor that I consented to fight.

As to the Color Line.

I shot at the mark but missed. There is nothing left to do but congratulate the winner, The color line should be drawn outside the ring It cannot be dragged inside the ropes. When two men face each other for battle one of them must not be discriminated against because his skin is black. Keep him out; of the ring entirely or give him fair play.

I took a chance at winning the greatest honors that could have been heaped upon a professional boxer Johnson took another chance. ' He won. There should be no ifs" and "ands" about the battle or the manner in which it was won and lost.

I went down trying with every ounce of Energy In my body to bring- back the world's heavyweight championship to the white race, Johnson won strictly on his merits as a fighter. That's all there is to it. Very simple when we come to think it all over.

Will Never right Again.

This is no time to write of my future plans or particulars. That I will never attempt to fight again goes without saying, I did everything that mortal man could do to bring myself back to fighting form. I actually believed I had accomplished this. I felt that I was myself again - that I was as good physically as I was when I retired a few short years ago.

I was mistaken. That is another point settled. Small use -for me to try to describe the fight . When a man is fighting he doesn't see what's being done, He feels. The conditions under which we fought were all fair and impartial. If the sun was hot to me It also was hot to Johnson. If the altitude was unfavorable to me- it was unfavorable to the negro. We had nothing but our fists between us,

Hears No Unkind Words.

The way I was treated after the fight was a credit to the justice of men who saw the battle. Not one sneer did I see. Not one unkind word did I hear. On all sides it was: "You did the best you could or knew how, Jim. That's all we expected.'1 I am thankful that this feeling: of sentiment exists.

I suppose that my battle will picked and repicked to pieces by the sporting writers, boxing authorities and fight critics It will be claimed that my training- was at fault,' Let me answer these now. My training was all it could possibly have been. My condition was as good as it could be. In fact my condition was more than remarkable. As for my fight—it was the best fight that was left in me.

Had I met Johnson when I was in my prime the result would have been different-I would have beaten him. As it was, I wore myself down and was beaten as much by the effects of my own exertions as I was by Johnson's blows.
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Old 05-08-2011, 07:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Obviously he's never going to buy that. He refuses to believe anything written in the American papers the day after Johnson-Jim Johnson because there is no proof that the writer was in Paris...why the **** would he believe a Sports Illustrated article?
Ever hear of wire reports? The NY times report I posted here had good detail in it, and if you read it objectively, its clear Battling Jim was the better.

Show me another news paper report on Jim Battling Johnson vs. Jack Johnson that says Jack won or by writing implied he was the better, and I can change perspective. Deal?
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Old 05-08-2011, 07:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Ever hear of wire reports? The NY times report I posted here had good detail in it, and if you read it objectively, its clear Battling Jim was the better.

Show me another news paper report on Jim Battling Johnson vs. Jack Johnson that says Jack won or by writing implied he was the better, and I can change perspective. Deal?
I'm talking about the duration. You've been shown multiple sources describing the fight as a ten round fight, both before and after and yet you continue to insist that it is a twenty round fight.

You dismissed my sources, printed the week before and the day after the fight because there is no proof that the writers were ringside.

Now you expose your own hypocrisy. How utterly delightful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Ever heard of wire reports?
So explain to me Mendoza, why are the wire reports describing the fight as a win for Jim Johnson valid and the wire reports reporting the fight as being over the ten round distance to be dismissed?
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

It is right to ask which newspaper in July 1910 this quote comes from.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Well, the question I've always asked is "Is there any citation for this quote earlier than the mid-late 1940's?"

I've asked this many times on this forum, and I've never heard of anyone finding a reference to this quote any time near the actual event of the fight.


Jim Carney (Jeffries biographer, author of 'Ultimate Tough Guy') and Geoffrey Ward (Johnson biographer, author of 'Unforgivable Blackness') do not cite this before the mid 40's. Ward worked with Ken Burns on the 'Unforgivable Blackness' docu. On that docu, Burns shows an image of a text of this quote, but everything but the quote, anything that could give context, is blacked out. If Burns had an earlier source, one would think Ward, who scripted Burns docu., would know about it.

I've said this before, but it's like someone coming along today and saying Ali told a reporter, after fighting Holmes, that at his best he never could have beaten Holmes. If someone claimed this, I'd wonder how the quote could ahve stayed buried for 30+ years; and I'm of the same mind regarding this alleged quote of Jeffries. Until anyone can find a citation of it fairly near the time of the event, I'm taking it with more than a grain of salt.
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Deal...with...it...whitey. And Mendoza, stop ducking Mcvey.
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

Quote:
McGrain I'm talking about the duration. You've been shown multiple sources describing the fight as a ten round fight, both before and after and yet you continue to insist that it is a twenty round fight.
You just could not resist. First off, one event has nothing to do with the other. Jeffries said if he was younger, he would have won. That has everything to do with the thread before you bait things.

Now off to the tangent you have created. As for the fight between Jack and Jim Johnson, as I told you there is a difference of opinions on the schedule length of the fight. The two best historians I know, Mike Delisa owner and editor of the CBZ, and Tracy Calis men who put in 1,000's of hours of research say 20 rounds, and their site says 20. Other reports say 10. Its open to interpretation. The CBZ as a soruce is far better than Box Rec.

Now I ask you, based on the detailed report by the N.Y. Times which I can repost, who do you think deserved to win?
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

I think that the Jeffries Johnson question has been confused by an abundance of stupidity on both sides!
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I think that the Jeffries Johnson question has been confused by an abundance of stupidity on both sides!
Perhaps I missed the excitement of that debate, but the NYT report was pretty emphatic that Battling Jim got the better of Lil Arthur and that the legendary arm injury occurred in the final 2 minute of the fight... if memory serves.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

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Perhaps I missed the excitement of that debate, but the NYT report was pretty emphatic that Battling Jim got the better of Lil Arthur and that the legendary arm injury occurred in the final 2 minute of the fight... if memory serves.
Those kind of details can get sold short, or not get apropriate scrutiny, if the topic is being debated by people with entrenched opinions!
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jeffries admits he could never beat Jack Johnson

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Those kind of details can get sold short, or not get apropriate scrutiny, if the topic is being debated by people with entrenched opinions!
So the article was some sort of journalistic scam? And so now all articles from pre-taped fights are to be similarly disbelieved or only those that cast a less than favorable light on the anointed combatants?
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