Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-09-2011, 08:03 AM   #1
Mr Butt
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: out preaching for the church of benn
Posts: 6,641
vCash: 1054
Default james jeffries in the 1950's

if we could transplant jeffries into the 1950's how would he of done given that he would of been trained using the 1950's methods
Mr Butt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-09-2011, 08:15 AM   #2
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 22,022
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Butt View Post
if we could transplant jeffries into the 1950's how would he of done given that he would of been trained using the 1950's methods
Pretty well I should think, he could lose decisions to the likes of Walcott and Charles, but he would be in barn burner fights with Rocky,Bob Baker, Rex Layne ,Nino Valdes etc.
The 50's is often seen as a weak era, but there were plenty of guys that could fight,a lot of them were on a par with each other so they dropped verdicts with some regularity, allmost like a pass the parcel .
Clarence Henry,Coley Wallace, Earl Walls, all very capable fighters,towards the end of the decade Machen ,Patterson ,Jackson. Jeffries would fit well I beleive, but not dominate, his style of take three, to give one, and wear down your man, would not work against bigger ,better co-ordinated fighters.imo.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by mcvey; 05-09-2011 at 09:20 AM.
mcvey is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 11:27 AM   #3
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 75
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Butt View Post
if we could transplant jeffries into the 1950's how would he of done given that he would of been trained using the 1950's methods
Coincidence that you picked the modern Heavyweight era with the least amount of significant blacks in it?

Jeffries would be out of his depth from 1940 onwards
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 11:42 AM   #4
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,317
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Coincidence that you picked the modern Heavyweight era with the least amount of significant blacks in it?

Jeffries would be out of his depth from 1940 onwards
Yeah, there were no slick fighters in that era.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:11 PM   #5
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,255
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Coincidence that you picked the modern Heavyweight era with the least amount of significant blacks in it?
If you look at the rankings for that period, you will see that it was verry much a black dominated division.

Of course that only becomes an issue once Jeffries holds the title.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:15 PM   #6
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 22,022
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If you look at the rankings for that period, you will see that it was verry much a black dominated division.

Of course that only becomes an issue once Jeffries holds the title.
This assumes of course, that he actually wins it in the 50's.
mcvey is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:20 PM   #7
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,255
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
This assumes of course, that he actually wins it in the 50's.
Obviously Rocky Marciano is not a champion who can be taken for granted.

Jeffries would certainly have taken fights with guys like Charles, Valdez, Baker, or Satterfield to secure a shot at the title.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:28 PM   #8
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 22,022
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Obviously Rocky Marciano is not a champion who can be taken for granted.

Jeffries would certainly have taken fights with guys like Charles, Valdez, Baker, or Satterfield to secure a shot at the title.
The 50's saw five Champs atop the heavyweight throne,Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, and Johannson. Jeffries might have his best chances against Floyd and Ingo.
Of course he might also get bombed away by the likes of a Mike DeJohn, Bob Baker,Clarence Henry, Nino Valdes, or outpointed by a Lastarza, Machen ,or a Folley.
mcvey is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:37 PM   #9
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,255
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Of course he might also get bombed away by the likes of a Mike DeJohn, Bob Baker,Clarence Henry, Nino Valdes, or outpointed by a Lastarza, Machen ,or a Folley.
I can't categoricaly say that this wouldn't happen, but I think it is verry unlikley. My interpretation is that Jeffries was a level or two above those guys.

Another factor is that Jeffries would not have been moved along so quickly in this era. He would have been put in with these guys when he was ready for them.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:42 PM   #10
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 75
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If you look at the rankings for that period, you will see that it was verry much a black dominated division.

Of course that only becomes an issue once Jeffries holds the title.
Yes, it was very much a black dominated division, but still, the least black dominated division out of all the eras since the colour line was broken
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:45 PM   #11
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 22,022
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I can't categoricaly say that this wouldn't happen, but I think it is verry unlikley. My interpretation is that Jeffries was a level or two above those guys.

Another factor is that Jeffries would not have been moved along so quickly in this era. He would have been put in with these guys when he was ready for them.
I think it likely he beats the bangers,but I would not be suprised if Machen for example, could not steal a decision from him.I say Machen instead of Folley because Folley was more stationary than Machen, and therefore would not be as elusive a target.
Walcott I can see taking a 15 rd dec from Jeffries, in fact I think it probable, Charles would have a shout too ,imo. Marciano and Jeffries would be a war.
mcvey is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 05:56 PM   #12
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,255
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Yes, it was very much a black dominated division, but still, the least black dominated division out of all the eras since the colour line was broken
What about the one we are in now?
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 06:25 PM   #13
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 75
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
What about the one we are in now?
So with the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, do you concede that they were heavily dominated by black fighters?

Or is my point completely baseless because in the worst HW era since the 20's, the 00's, two white giants reign(one of which was made to look like pizza by the aged, ready to retire champion of the previous era)
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 06:31 PM   #14
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,255
vCash: 1000
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
So with the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's, do you concede that they were heavily dominated by black fighters?
The 30s were not and neither were the early 40s. Colour line or no, these would always have been white dominated top 10s, even if a black fighter had managed to win the title.

Quote:
Or is my point completely baseless because in the worst HW era since the 20's, the 00's, two white giants reign(one of which was made to look like pizza by the aged, ready to retire champion of the previous era)
Its not just two white giants reigning. The entire heavyweight top 10 is dominated by Eastern European fighters, and there is no reason to think that the next one will be any different.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2011, 06:48 PM   #15
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 75
Default Re: james jeffries in the 1950's

[quote=janitor;9609773]
Quote:


The 30s were not and neither were the early 40s. Colour line or no, these would always have been white dominated top 10s, even if a black fighter had managed to win the title.

Its not just two white giants reigning. The entire heavyweight top 10 is dominated by Eastern European fighters, and there is no reason to think that the next one will be any different.
Yes, there was only one thing you could call dominant in the 30's and that was called Joe Louis. And this was when the playing field was still not yet level, Louis was just so good he couldnt be denied.

And yes, the 40's certainly were.

And no, given just something close to equal opportunites, blacks have dominated. Given equal opportunities, they have utterly dominated. They did not have this at all in Jeffries time, so how can you even assume that??

This current era is only era in 80's years where they havent. And the two guys leading this domination, head and shoulders above the rest, one of them in his prime, was shredded and stopped in 6, by the past it champion of the previous era.
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013