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View Poll Results: How credible is the quote ascribed to Jeffries?
Certainly true. 4 21.05%
Likely true. 2 10.53%
Hard to say. 4 21.05%
Likely false. 7 36.84%
Certainly false. 2 10.53%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-09-2011, 01:42 PM   #1
guilalah
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Default Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

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I'm interested in polling ESB members as to what degree of credibility they ascribe to this quote.

For those interested in advancing arguments for or against the credibility of the quote, I refer them to the thread begun by SonnyListon'sJab: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Jeffries definitely said "Six years ago the result might have been different." I've seen this in numerous reports.

I've never seen the "couldn't have beat" quote, or anything like it. I did see him say "i never could have reached him" which might be the genesis of the quote, but to me that seemed to be "i never could have reached him [tonight no matter how much i had sparred]" (some said afterwards that Jeff hadn't sparred enough).

If he said this it was monsterously under-reported. I don't think he said it, personally, though I don't rule it out entirely.

The problem is it is harder to prove something didn't happen that that it did. This is why mis-information is so dangerous. Once some bullshit takes hold it is hard to shake it off.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:57 PM   #3
Ramon Rojo
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Likely false. In those days a white man wouldn't have admitted even privately that he's not capable of beating a black man.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Jeffries post-fight press-release in full:

"I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my heart that all my old-time dash was there but when I tried to execute the speed and youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible. For example I used to shoot in a right-hand body punch, a short-range blow that never failed me. When I tried today the snap was not there and it was only a love-tap.

I suppose most of my trainers and helpers will say that I did not box enough. It wouldn't have made any difference if I had sparred a dozen more times than I did, I simply was not there and that's all there is to it.

I guess it was all my own fault. I was getting along nicely but when the started calling me the "white man's hope". I guess my pride got the better of my judgement. I worked long and hard to condition myself and I was fit so far as strength goes but the old necessary snap and dash, the willingness to tear and crush, were not with me.

Six years ago the result might have been different.

But now - well, I guess the public will let me alone after this."
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:06 PM   #5
mcvey
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guilalah View Post

I'm interested in polling ESB members as to what degree of credibility they ascribe to this quote.

For those interested in advancing arguments for or against the credibility of the quote, I refer them to the thread begun by SonnyListon'sJab: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Someone posted the newspaper article with this quote from Jeffries in it, I can't remember who it was.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:11 PM   #6
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Jeffries post-fight press-release in full:

"I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my heart that all my old-time dash was there but when I tried to execute the speed and youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible. For example I used to shoot in a right-hand body punch, a short-range blow that never failed me. When I tried today the snap was not there and it was only a love-tap.

I suppose most of my trainers and helpers will say that I did not box enough. It wouldn't have made any difference if I had sparred a dozen more times than I did, I simply was not there and that's all there is to it.

I guess it was all my own fault. I was getting along nicely but when the started calling me the "white man's hope". I guess my pride got the better of my judgement. I worked long and hard to condition myself and I was fit so far as strength goes but the old necessary snap and dash, the willingness to tear and crush, were not with me.

Six years ago the result might have been different.

But now - well, I guess the public will let me alone after this."
M, Many years ago in a 1950s Ring Magazine interview by Nat Fleischer with Jim Jeffries in California, I recall Jeffries saying about the same thing as your
post above. I'm going to rifle through all my old Ring Mags to see if I can locate that interview,once again...
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

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Here is what was posted. Which paper is it from and when was it printed?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
M, Many years ago in a 1950s Ring Magazine interview by Nat Fleischer with Jim Jeffries in California, I recall Jeffries saying about the same thing as your
post above. I'm going to rifle through all my old Ring Mags to see if I can locate that interview,once again...
Cool.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:18 PM   #9
Pachilles
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Whever he said it or not, it is certainly true
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:19 PM   #10
McGrain
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Does anyone know when Jeffries travelled home?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:25 PM   #11
amhlilhaus
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

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Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Whever he said it or not, it is certainly true
yeah, we all know that johnson was invincible. never lost, never hurt, never hit, only white prejudice reported his losses as such when it wasn't close to being true.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Obviously a 1959 Sports Illustrated that says "he told a reporter" doesn't really cut it as a solid source.

(Then again, even the "solid sources" are possibly the words of press agents and managers with the help of the writers, and not fighters.
I've noticed many of the great athletes and fighters in the dim past of American Golden Age of Sports tended to speak as eloquently and flowery as the writers who reported on them.
As they say, don't believe anything you read in the papers.)

Whereas we can be fairly certain that Mike Tyson did actually say "I wish that you guys had children so I could kick them in the ****ing head or stomp on their testicles so you could feel my pain because that's the pain I have waking up every day." .....
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu57oIv8SLM[/ame]
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:36 PM   #13
mcvey
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Obviously a 1959 Sports Illustrated that says "he told a reporter" doesn't really cut it as a solid source.

(Then again, even the "solid sources" are possibly the words of press agents and managers with the help of the writers, and not fighters.
I've noticed many of the great athletes and fighters in the dim past of American Golden Age of Sports tended to speak as eloquently and flowery as the writers who reported on them.
As they say, don't believe anything you read in the papers.)

Whereas we can be fairly certain that Mike Tyson did actually say "I wish that you guys had children so I could kick them in the ****ing head or stomp on their testicles so you could feel my pain because that's the pain I have waking up every day." .....
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Solid points .Jack Johnson was often quoted like some Uncle Remus " dis am de best place to be", etc when actually he was very articulate, and affected a British accent.
Personally I don''t think it matters one iota if Jeffries said it or not , we can watch the fight and draw our own conclusions I think.
Jeffries put his name to an absurd quote that he lost because of " drugged tea" it made no difference at all because no one gave it any credibility.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:11 PM   #14
Pachilles
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

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Originally Posted by amhlilhaus View Post
yeah, we all know that johnson was invincible. never lost, never hurt, never hit, only white prejudice reported his losses as such when it wasn't close to being true.
He whooped Jeffrie's racist ass. And we know Jeffries drew with guys 60lbs lighter than himself.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jeffries: "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best" Credible Quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Someone posted the newspaper article with this quote from Jeffries in it, I can't remember who it was.
I thought it was Boucher from my memory
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