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View Poll Results: How would do you grade Dempseys championship reign?
A+ 2 3.39%
A 1 1.69%
A- 2 3.39%
B+ 5 8.47%
B 18 30.51%
B- 5 8.47%
C+ 7 11.86%
C 7 11.86%
C- 7 11.86%
D 5 8.47%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-17-2011, 05:19 PM   #91
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
other ridiculous quotes by Dempsey in this article:

"I am sorry to have to go to Europe to defend my title, but as there are no fighters of note to meet me I must go."

Is he drunk, possibly?

He goes on to say that he was "disappointed" that Gibbons had been hammered by Greb because Greb wasn't ready to fight him yet...although he'd just beaten the guy he'd hoped to fight


Then he says that he can't fight Wills because the public isn't demanding it

Nice that Corbett took on the most qualified as opposed to the biggest or he might still be champ
The one in bold is the one that caught my eye as making no sense whatsoever!
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:20 PM   #92
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Greb was too small and Wills was too....black?
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:22 PM   #93
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

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Greb was too small and Wills was too....black?
There may also be fighters who were to big and to fast that we never heard of.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:35 PM   #94
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

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There may also be fighters who were to big and to fast that we never heard of.
Why did nobody tell him prior that William Meehan was too fat?
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:41 PM   #95
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Default Re: How good was Dempsey title reign Let's look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Which huge knockouts do you think particularly impressed the public and matchmakers concerning the challenges of Jack Munroe, Georges Carpantier, John Finnegan, Jack O'Brien and Gene Tunney?
Carpentier was promoted as a fighter who packed a punch.
He was built up on his KO of Battling Levinsky (the only man to KO Levinsky apart from Dempsey) and tales of his 1st round KO over Britain's Joe Beckett for the European championship.
Carpentier was a KO puncher, he scored KOs.

Tunney was doubted as a puncher, but the fact that he had KO'd Gibbons (who everyone knew had gone the distance with Dempsey) was used a currency in his claim to be a man worthy of a shot at Dempsey. Also, his KO of Bartley Madden was very impressive.


Quote:
These are just details that allow a good promotion. Plenty of details surround Greb that would have allowed for a good promotion. Please don't pretend that Rickard couldn't promote Greb-Dempsey, it very obviously would have been huge
I'm not pretending anything of the sort.
I'm saying Rickard probably wouldn't have wanted Greb as a HEAVYWEIGHT champion.
It's pretty obvious why. The guy was a middleweight who won his fights almost exclusively by decision.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:44 PM   #96
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Dempsey was quoted as saying Greb was "too small" before the Europe trip ....


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Tex Rickard was notorious for billing matches as "eliminators", through the 1920s right up to his death. Firpo won a few.

Strange comment from someone who just a few days earlier had been offered $100,000 by Philadelphia promoters to box Greb in an 8 round no decision bout... I wish someone would pay me $100,000 to fight someone that was so obviously overmatched...

On this same Chicago stop off Jack was quoted as saying "Yes, it is possible that I might get a match with Harry Greb and if I do and there is call or demand for it I will surely take it. there is just a chance that Greb might have an idea that he can beat me. Id like to have a lot of persons with good drawing power think they can beat me. It would make good business for me."

So you admit that Greb is a draw, and state that if such an offer is made you will take it, you say at one time that Greb is big enough but then say hes too small and nobody is calling for the match. Sorry but the proof is in the pudding. If you beat the top contender, and have the backing of promoters who offer a purse of $100,000 for a safe 8 round ND bout. Its pretty tought to argue that you are too small, theres no money in it, nobody supports the idea, etc etc. Those suddenly start sounding like excuses not to fight the guy who just dominated your top white contender.

Typical of Dempsey to talk out of both sides of his mouth. You see this throughout his career. I wonder if anyone here thinks its good business to pass up $100,000 for a supposedly overmatched opponent? One thing is certain: When Dempsey returned from Europe in the summer of 1922 the #1 opponent on his mind was not Greb, or Gibbons, or Tunney, or Wills, but a rematch with Carpentier. That right there should tell you exactly how seriously Dempsey was seeking out the best challenges.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:45 PM   #97
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

I suppose if you feel certain this bars him from fighting for the HW title then you can excuse Dempsey.

To me it sounds like horseshit.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:46 PM   #98
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Default Re: How good was Dempsey title reign Let's look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Carpentier was promoted as a fighter who packed a punch.
He was built up on his KO of Battling Levinsky (the only man to KO Levinsky apart from Dempsey) and tales of his 1st round KO over Britain's Joe Beckett for the European championship.
Carpentier was a KO puncher, he scored KOs.

Tunney was doubted as a puncher, but the fact that he had KO'd Gibbons (who everyone knew had gone the distance with Dempsey) was used a currency in his claim to be a man worthy of a shot at Dempsey. Also, his KO of Bartley Madden was very impressive.




I'm not pretending anything of the sort.
I'm saying Rickard probably wouldn't have wanted Greb as a HEAVYWEIGHT champion.
It's pretty obvious why. The guy was a middleweight who won his fights almost exclusively by decision.
True enough, but he hardly lost rounds in many of his fights, not the way say a Pernell Whitaker did, but by pure aggression and work rate. Maybe the era was different, but that sounds pretty exciting and promotable to me.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:48 PM   #99
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
other ridiculous quotes by Dempsey in this article:

"I am sorry to have to go to Europe to defend my title, but as there are no fighters of note to meet me I must go."

Is he drunk, possibly?

He goes on to say that he was "disappointed" that Gibbons had been hammered by Greb because Greb wasn't ready to fight him yet...although he'd just beaten the guy he'd hoped to fight

Then he says that he can't fight Wills because the public isn't demanding it

Yes, and the article calls him out on all that.

It was Dempsey's contention all along that Greb was "too small", or so it seems.
klompton seems to have a different take, where it took Dempsey a trip to europe to discover he didn't want to fight Greb - unless I've misunderstood klompton's post.

Interesting that Gibbons was such a big favourite to beat Greb.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:53 PM   #100
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton View Post
Strange comment from someone who just a few days earlier had been offered $100,000 by Philadelphia promoters to box Greb in an 8 round no decision bout... I wish someone would pay me $100,000 to fight someone that was so obviously overmatched...

On this same Chicago stop off Jack was quoted as saying "Yes, it is possible that I might get a match with Harry Greb and if I do and there is call or demand for it I will surely take it. there is just a chance that Greb might have an idea that he can beat me. Id like to have a lot of persons with good drawing power think they can beat me. It would make good business for me."

So you admit that Greb is a draw, and state that if such an offer is made you will take it, you say at one time that Greb is big enough but then say hes too small and nobody is calling for the match. Sorry but the proof is in the pudding. If you beat the top contender, and have the backing of promoters who offer a purse of $100,000 for a safe 8 round ND bout. Its pretty tought to argue that you are too small, theres no money in it, nobody supports the idea, etc etc. Those suddenly start sounding like excuses not to fight the guy who just dominated your top white contender.

Typical of Dempsey to talk out of both sides of his mouth. You see this throughout his career. I wonder if anyone here thinks its good business to pass up $100,000 for a supposedly overmatched opponent? One thing is certain: When Dempsey returned from Europe in the summer of 1922 the #1 opponent on his mind was not Greb, or Gibbons, or Tunney, or Wills, but a rematch with Carpentier. That right there should tell you exactly how seriously Dempsey was seeking out the best challenges.
sounds an awful lot like Floyd Mayweather Jr, no?
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:56 PM   #101
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Incidently, 175lb plus fighters that Greb stopped:

Al Benedict, (210lbs)
Larry Williams
Whitey Allen
Homer Smith
Gunboat Smith (one punch ko)
Yankee Gilbert


So, yeah, not really, even.

When you allow Levinksy for Carpantier you let in Greb's LHW ko's also.

It's a lot of crap all this really, just shit getting talked.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:56 PM   #102
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton View Post
Strange comment from someone who just a few days earlier had been offered $100,000 by Philadelphia promoters to box Greb in an 8 round no decision bout... I wish someone would pay me $100,000 to fight someone that was so obviously overmatched...

On this same Chicago stop off Jack was quoted as saying "Yes, it is possible that I might get a match with Harry Greb and if I do and there is call or demand for it I will surely take it. there is just a chance that Greb might have an idea that he can beat me. Id like to have a lot of persons with good drawing power think they can beat me. It would make good business for me."

So you admit that Greb is a draw, and state that if such an offer is made you will take it, you say at one time that Greb is big enough but then say hes too small and nobody is calling for the match. Sorry but the proof is in the pudding. If you beat the top contender, and have the backing of promoters who offer a purse of $100,000 for a safe 8 round ND bout. Its pretty tought to argue that you are too small, theres no money in it, nobody supports the idea, etc etc. Those suddenly start sounding like excuses not to fight the guy who just dominated your top white contender.

Typical of Dempsey to talk out of both sides of his mouth. You see this throughout his career. I wonder if anyone here thinks its good business to pass up $100,000 for a supposedly overmatched opponent? One thing is certain: When Dempsey returned from Europe in the summer of 1922 the #1 opponent on his mind was not Greb, or Gibbons, or Tunney, or Wills, but a rematch with Carpentier. That right there should tell you exactly how seriously Dempsey was seeking out the best challenges.

Obviously he wasn't seeking out the best challenges. He was hoping to milk the title, the easiest challenges for the biggest sum of dollars. Or, if not that, the toughest guys if the money was right.
..... or look to make easy money outside the ring in motion pictures, exhibitions and other appearances.

Somehow, I think someone else was calling the shots (ie.Kearns), because as soon as he broke with Kearns he ended up fighting a tough one (Tunney) straight off a 3-year layoff.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:57 PM   #103
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
It was Dempsey's contention all along that Greb was "too small", or so it seems.
klompton seems to have a different take, where it took Dempsey a trip to europe to discover he didn't want to fight Greb - unless I've misunderstood klompton's post.
If Dempsey is going to Europe he doesn't have to fight Greb, and knows it.

When he comes back, he needs to find (more) reasons.
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:59 PM   #104
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Somehow, I think someone else was calling the shots (ie.Kearns), because as soon as he broke with Kearns he ended up fighting a tough one (Tunney) straight off a 3-year layoff.
Although he first made noises about a ten round fight with a slipping Greb as a "warm up" for Tunney.

Of course, when Greb offered to take the fight in spite of troubles, Dempsey reneged.

Or someone reneged on his behalf, as you would likely prefer.
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:01 PM   #105
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Default Re: How good was Dempseys totle reign?Lets look at who he fought. Willard-In many pe

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Incidently, 175lb plus fighters that Greb stopped:

Al Benedict, (210lbs)
Larry Williams
Whitey Allen
Homer Smith
Gunboat Smith (one punch ko)
Yankee Gilbert


So, yeah, not really, even.

When you allow Levinksy for Carpantier you let in Greb's LHW ko's also.

It's a lot of crap all this really, just shit getting talked.
You seem to be missing the point.
Carpentier-Levinsky was a massive promotion, and Levinsky had only ever been KO'd by Dempsey.
How many times did Greb fight Levinsky ? Several, I think. And no KOs, so your statement there is illogical.

If you want to argue that Harry Greb had acquired a reputation for scoring knockouts and sheer punching power as had Georges Carpentier, then go ahead. As you say, that's just "shit getting talked"
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