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Old 11-28-2007, 06:30 PM   #16
brownpimp88
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Sweet scientist, how the **** can u rank cerdan above lennox, how many contenders did he beat? Like 5?
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Excluding the likes of McLarnin, McAuliffe, Dundee, Kaplan, etc. :



1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Jim Driscoll
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Duilio Loi
5. Owen Moran
6. Ted Kid Lewis
7. Ken Buchanan
8. Nino Benvenuti
9. Jackie Kid Berg
10.Freddie Welsh
11.Marcel Cerdan
12.Lennox Lewis
13. Benny Lynch
14. Georges Carpentier
15. Battling Nelson
16. Pete Sanstol
17. Marcel Thil
18. Lou Bogash
19. Salvatore Burruni
20. Sumbu Kalambay

Others there abouts:
Bruno Arcari
Rinty Monaghan
Max Schmelling
Jim Watt
Joe Calzaghe
Ricky Hatton
Naseem Hamed
Lloyd Honeghan
Dariusz Michelczewski

So a solid Middleweight who's claim to fame is beating McCallum in Italy and was flattened by the power punching 'Second to quite a few' Nunn; beats out a Heavyweight Champion of the World who beat near prime Louis; a power punching Featherweight who dominated an era for half decade in Naseem; a Super Middleweight Champion of the World who has bested everyone he has ever met in Calzaghe and a 140lbs King who has risen to the occasion everytime and beaten a fellow 140lb immortal in Kostya Tszyu? Not to mention THE five + year reigning Light Heavyweight Champion Michelczewski.

Same goes for your #19, 18 and 16, I know the Europeans and to a point British sucked, but you can do better than that.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
So a solid Middleweight who's claim to fame is beating McCallum in Italy and was flattened by the power punching 'Second to quite a few' Nunn; beats out a Heavyweight Champion of the World who beat near prime Louis; a power punching Featherweight who dominated an era for half decade in Naseem; a Super Middleweight Champion of the World who has bested everyone he has ever met in Calzaghe and a 140lbs King who has risen to the occasion everytime and beaten a fellow 140lb immortal in Kostya Tszyu? Not to mention THE five + year reigning Light Heavyweight Champion Michelczewski.

Same goes for your #19, 18 and 16, I know the Europeans and to a point British sucked, but you can do better than that.

Horrible post, it would be better if you post your list instead of criticizing a good and solid list. A Bogash for example beat more HOF than DM beat ranked opponents, so whatīs your point?
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Horrible post, it would be better if you post your list instead of criticizing a good and solid list. A Bogash for example beat more HOF than DM beat ranked opponents, so what´s your point?
A decision win over a green Walker and a dq over Flowers is not going to cut it...

The list is IMO not up to scratch; indeed a bit sloppy for someone as good as sweet_science.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

I think most rank Buchanan too highly...Conteh was the better fighter as far as seventies Brits go and their accomplishments are fairly equal.

Dariusz regardless of his long reign was a pretty ordinary fighter as well and i can never forget the disgraceful Rocchigianni fight.

Tbooze's lists are some of the worst i've ever seen.Even Dariusz mother wouldn't have him a light heavy top ten.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
A decision win over a green Walker and a dq over Flowers is not going to cut it...

The list is IMO not up to scratch; indeed a bit sloppy for someone as good as sweet_science.

He was robbed against Flowers at least one times, he won also against the likes of McTigue, Loughran, Italian Joe Gans, etc., informate first before you post, Walker was green? He had already over 30 fights at that point of his career, he wasnīt in his prime yet but almost prime...
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:49 PM   #22
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Sweet scientist, how the **** can u rank cerdan above lennox, how many contenders did he beat? Like 5?
Lennox has a better wins resume, but remember that Cerdan was fighting guys often much bigger in natural size to him, whereas Lennox was habitually fighting guys smaller than him. Cerdan also doesn't have any embarassing KO losses to journeymen. I like what I see of Cerdan on film as well. Those are my reasons, fuzzy as they are. I'm happy to have Cerdan above Lewis.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
So a solid Middleweight who's claim to fame is beating McCallum in Italy and was flattened by the power punching 'Second to quite a few' Nunn; beats out a Heavyweight Champion of the World who beat near prime Louis; a power punching Featherweight who dominated an era for half decade in Naseem; a Super Middleweight Champion of the World who has bested everyone he has ever met in Calzaghe and a 140lbs King who has risen to the occasion everytime and beaten a fellow 140lb immortal in Kostya Tszyu? Not to mention THE five + year reigning Light Heavyweight Champion Michelczewski.

Same goes for your #19, 18 and 16, I know the Europeans and to a point British sucked, but you can do better than that.
Positions 19 and 20 are a bit weak on my behalf, and I think the likes of Schmelling should have been there instead.

That said, Kalambay did also beat the likes of Barkley and Herol Graham so he wasn't exactly a one hit wonder.

The likes of Hamed and Michelsczewski had longer reigns but their opponents were pretty average imo. Hamed beat no one you'd class over the category of good and the only fighters you could class above that which Michelczewski beat were past their prime - that's if you want to class the likes of Griffin and Hill above good, which might be contentious in itself.

I didn't want to add the likes of Calzaghe and Hatton just yet as their legacies are still to cement.

I'm happy with the likes of Sanstol and Bogash where they are.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

errr... Randy Turpin? Mike McTigue? Calzaghe belongs way up there if you are going to judge current fighters. The Great Henry Maske!
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:18 AM   #25
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus
errr... Randy Turpin? Mike McTigue? Calzaghe belongs way up there if you are going to judge current fighters. The Great Henry Maske!
Both Turpin and McTigue deserve a mention for sure.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
He was robbed against Flowers at least one times, he won also against the likes of McTigue, Loughran, Italian Joe Gans, etc., informate first before you post, Walker was green? He had already over 30 fights at that point of his career, he wasn´t in his prime yet but almost prime...
YOU do not know he was robbed against Flowers, you are using the opinions of others. He did not beat McTigue and Loughran; and Italian Joe Gans was a .6 Journeyman...
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:49 AM   #27
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
YOU do not know he was robbed against Flowers, you are using the opinions of others. He did not beat McTigue and Loughran; and Italian Joe Gans was a .6 Journeyman...


I believe in serious newspaper sources, instead of hearing to a poster like you. He beat fighters like McTigue, Loughran, Walker, Scozza, Moody, Malone, Dundee, etc, thatīs a hell of a resume, much better than many of the ones you have in your list...
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:12 AM   #28
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

You guys know your ****.

Benny Lynch, Kid Berg, Wilde....some bloody good fighters.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:13 AM   #29
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

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Originally Posted by DavidPayne
You guys know your ****.

Benny Lynch, Kid Berg, Wilde....some bloody good fighters.

Yeah, David, you from the UK know it, Wilde, Lynch, Berg, etc., look at my list, 50 % at least British fighters...
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:15 AM   #30
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Default Re: 20 best Europeans p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantequilla
I think most rank Buchanan too highly...Conteh was the better fighter as far as seventies Brits go and their accomplishments are fairly equal.

Dariusz regardless of his long reign was a pretty ordinary fighter as well and i can never forget the disgraceful Rocchigianni fight.

Tbooze's lists are some of the worst i've ever seen.Even Dariusz mother wouldn't have him a light heavy top ten.

Agreed. I always thaught T-Booze is a a good poster, but in the last times he is getting worse and worse IMO...
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