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Old 11-29-2007, 02:49 PM   #16
My dinner with Conteh
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

There is more likelihood that fighters listed as 0-0-0 don't have too many great wins in reality. I think you know that if you were being honest.*










* Which is not your strong point of course.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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=Maxmomer]Ok, now you're just being a cunt.
Name calling, over a simple debate. Very mature.


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Did Dempsey rape your great grandmother or something?
Well, I had to get here somehow.


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How much time do you devote to doing everything you can to try to destroy Dempsey's reputation and status on internet forums?
Uhhhhhh, none.

I've never started a Dempsey thread in my life, nor do I plan to.


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I rate Dempsey at 3, many other smart people who know their boxing as good or better than you rate him in their top 5.
Now this is truly laughable.


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I could spend an hour fact checking and coming up arguments against yours but it won't matter because you just won't let it the **** go.
When in the hell was I ever talking to you to begin with? Why don't you just do yourself and everybody else a favor, and save the dramatics for your home life, and keep them off the forum?


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I'm done with this, I consider Dempsey one of the greatest fighters of all time and that's that, so **** off.
Good for you. I can't begin to tell you how happy that makes me. And by the way, **** you to.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

I wasn't talking to you, Magoo.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
I wasn't talking to you, Magoo.
My sincere appologies, but you should probably chill out nonetheless. Its only a chat forum topic dude, not the start of a third world war
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
There is more likelihood that fighters listed as 0-0-0 don't have too many great wins in reality. I think you know that if you were being honest.*
Lets look at the records of some of the British champions that Jimmy Wilde fought when he fought them.

Joung Jennings-former Flyweight Champion 0-1-0

Tancy Lee-current Flyweight Champion 3-1-0

Tom Noble-former Bantemweight Champion 2-4-0

You get the idea.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:38 PM   #21
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

Noble fought in 1880, that's 40 more years of lost newspapers. Hardly comparable. Lee has 11 fights listed, no one or two. Jennings is listed to have 5 fights but none for a title.

At any rate, those are bantamweights and flyweights. Maybe it sounds cruel but most of the people don't give a **** about those division. Heavyweights is where the money and attention is. If an all time great like Dempsey fought other heavyweights then surely someone would come up with "my granddad fought Dempsey as well as 10 other clubfighters!". If they would've been fringe contenders or more than surely they would've fought other names of the era, but they didn't.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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ChrisPontius Here's an article in the Washington Post, after Dempsey beat Fulton:

"It took Jack Dempsey, until a few months ago an unheard of boxer, only 23 seconds this evening to take his place at the top of the pugilistic ladder as the man most likely to gain the heavy weight championship of the world. He achieved this by knocking out Fred Fulton in the first round of their scheduled eight-round battle here with a right to the jaw. Fulton, looked on as the most formidable rival of Jess Willard, was relegated to the pugilistic scrapheap by the punch."

Notice it says "untill a few months ago an unheard of boxer". This was only a year before he fought Willard! So if all this great work came before winning the title, why was he still unheard of?
Dempsey was not unheard of in 1918. One report is not enough Here' his his battle with Levinsky in 1918. It seems like the press knew who he was.

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Old 11-29-2007, 03:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Noble fought in 1880, that's 40 more years of lost newspapers. Hardly comparable. Lee has 11 fights listed, no one or two. Jennings is listed to have 5 fights but none for a title.
Those are their records on boxrec after or while they held the British title.

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At any rate, those are bantamweights and flyweights. Maybe it sounds cruel but most of the people don't give a **** about those division.
Certainly the problem is worse in the lower weight classes but I can find some comparable heavyweight examples if you want.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

Dempsey was a great champion but his legacy is tarnished for a couple of reasons. #1 To the day he died Jess Willard said Dempsey's gloves were loaded, and in those days the refs never checked fighter's gloves before fights. The damage to his face is self-evident of those claims. #2 He never fought Harry Wills or Joe Jeannette, two of the leading black contenders of the day. An aging Jack Johnson challenged Dempsey, who would have probably provided less of a theat to his title than Wills or Jeanette. Still, Dempsey refused to fight him and that's why I feel he doesn't belong in the top five, but certainly top ten.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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Originally Posted by GregDempsey
dude..you know so little..but lets just take the idea that Sharkey went down because "he hoped for a DQ win" will..when the Ref started counting over him he knew he wasnt going to get a DQ...why did he go down? because he got hit real ****in hard in the face thats why..why did he stay down..because he was ****ed up. why are you stupid..because thats how your momma raised ya.

Then why did he grab for his balls on the floor?
It shows:
a) he was not unconscious
b) he was obviously more bothered by the low blow than the face shot, which had very little body leverage behind it if you watch it in slow motion.

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Originally Posted by janitor
Certainly the problem is worse in the lower weight classes but I can find some comparable heavyweight examples if you want.
I would appreciate that.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
Ok, now you're just being a cunt. Did Dempsey rape your great grandmother or something? I consider Dempsey one of the greatest fighters of all time and that's that, so **** off.
I admire the directness here.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Nope, Dempsey drew the color line against my grandmother, who was still green at that point.


Anyway, it's weird that there is this much consternation over a fighter we can all agree is a lock for the top 15.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:42 PM   #28
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

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There is only one heavyweight that I can see who would fit into the old school and that’s Tyson. They’re all cream puff punchers today except Tyson, and his secret is that he doesn’t waste many punches.”
Then Sharkey turned his attention to Dempsey and others “Jack Dempsey was the best because he was a real fighter, and if he hit you in the shoulder he could dislocate it".

Jack Sharkey
Il tell you exactly what Sharkey is saying here.

An ounce of delivery is worth a several pounds of power. Power on its own is usefull up to a point but verry few fighters have the technique to aply it properly. Dempsey had it, Tyson had it.

Most punchers including many all time greats do not.

Last edited by janitor; 11-30-2007 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

That is one sorry ass judgement from Arcel. Even about Ali, who i rank #1 head to head, you can't claim "he would beat any fighter, no doubt about it, he'd kill Louis, etc". That's plain ignorant. Arcel may be judging on faded memories, on a youth hero or whatever. To say that Dempsey has no weaknesses pretty much shows how weak his assessement is here. Anyone can see that him carrying his hands low is a weakness and a big part of his offence can be neutralised by tieing him up (which can also be said of Tyson and Frazier).

Dempsey a walkover against Foreman who makes him look like a matchstick and wants his opponent to come forward? Yeah, right.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Question to those who rank Dempsey high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxmomer
Ok, now you're just being a cunt. Did Dempsey rape your great grandmother or something? How much time do you devote to doing everything you can to try to destroy Dempsey's reputation and status on internet forums? It's getting old, every argument you come up with will be contered, and it will just keep going on and on and no one will ever win so what's the ****ing point? I rate Dempsey at 3, many other smart people who know their boxing as good or better than you rate him in their top 5. Again I ask, what's the point? I could spend an hour fact checking and coming up arguments against yours but it won't matter because you just won't let it the **** go. I'm done with this, I consider Dempsey one of the greatest fighters of all time and that's that, so **** off.
Boo fukking hoo! Chris has gone to great lengths studying up and addressed countless points of debate in order to merit his points. You inner sanctum lot bitch about people hating on Dempsey and carry on like little children whenever anyone questions his greatness, let alone debunks a lot of it. It's a forum, get over it and grow the fukk up.

You don't rank Foster as a top 17 light heavyweight, wtf's up with you? There's a lot more merit in the criticism of Dempsey than leaving Foster out. Ridiculous really. If Dempsey had a similar reign (where he actually beat the best of his day one after another for this many years without no 3 year break) he'd be the second coming. And no, fights at Heavyweight don't count at 175.
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