Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-27-2011, 10:12 PM   #16
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrus View Post
[/i] [/b]

why'd you mention this at all?
Because this thread involves, Frazier and Ali. Thought I'd simply expand things.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-28-2011, 12:18 AM   #17
Garrus
Big Boss 1935-2014
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A Hero Forever Loyal To The Flames Of War, Rests in Outer Heaven
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 157
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi View Post
Because this thread involves, Frazier and Ali. Thought I'd simply expand things.

You kinda just threw it in there, seemed out of place is all.
Garrus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 12:57 AM   #18
MagnaNasakki
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,829
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Frazier had thin, thin skin. He got insulted and riled up easily.

Add that he was Ali's main rival and every single fight of theirs had personal and historical significance, and Muhammad went crazy.
MagnaNasakki is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 04:29 AM   #19
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsec View Post
Muhammad is awesome, he always comes across as an amazing person, from standing up for Angelo Dundee against Don King, or his NOI hanger-ons who didn't want a white guy in the group, mingling with fans out in the open, signing autographs for ANYONE, visiting people in the hospital, his acts of charity, this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

But when it comes to Joe Frazier, a guy who helped him out during his ban from boxing, he went beyond trash-talk and hyping up a fight. He was just MEAN. I never got why.
Ali had been dumped on,big time,by the establishment in the 60's. He needed a focal point to articulate his anger on. Frazier was that focal point. Also,Muhammad knew that Joe was his ultimate rival. The competitive juices contributed to him taking his act over the top with Joe.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 04:42 AM   #20
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi View Post
Frazier seemed vulnerable to it. He could have learned a thing or two from Ken Norton and a few others.

Regarding the bad talk between them years ago, Ali was the instigator. However, out all the things said between them both, Frazier has probably said the worst. Saying he gave Ali the Parkinsons, etc. It's almost as if he's happy to give himself the credit for it. I think Joe forgets that a few others might have been responsible, not just him. Shavers, Spinks and Holmes, etc.

Anyway, Frazier was the one who was eating right hands for breakfast all the way through the 14th round. I'm pretty sure if he came out for the 15th, it would have been 'normal service resumed'.

Another thing that I'd like to add. If you look at Frazier on his stool after the 14th round, he was a man who was 'slightly' shaking his head before Futch halted him. His demeanour on the stool was that of a man in distress and not looking like he wanted to continue. And not once did he argue with Futch or show any emotion after Futch asked the ref to stop it.
Futch did the right thing. Frazier would have got killed if he'd come out for the final round. You're right in what you say. Frazier's comments about Ali in recent years more than wipe out anything OTT that Ali said about Joe at the time.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 05:54 AM   #21
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,049
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

It wasn't totally out of place in Ali's character. He wasn't always a saintly picture of loyalty and good heartedness.

Ali turned his back on Malcolm X and renounced him, and didn't say anything good about him for years.

I've seen Ali on the Michael Parkinson show deny that he had any white friends, and that Angelo Dundee and Gene Kliroy etc. were not his friends, just "associates".

The real shame about the Frazier-Ali stuff is not that Ali said some horrible things, but that loads of educated "intellectual" black and white people believed and went along with those ideas. That's the sickening part. Mostly people who had no real interest in boxing, or much previous interest in the personalities of Ali and Frazier, just went along with Ali's stupid "Uncle Tom" and "White Man's champion" jibes .... rationalized them, intellectualized them and gave them more legitimacy than they deserved.
Unforgiven is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:12 AM   #22
Rise Above
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,954
vCash: 210
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Cause he was a cunt.
Rise Above is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 06:58 AM   #23
groove
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,028
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

it started cuz frazier kept calling him clay in interviews, tv etc. patterson and terrell also kept calling him clay in the run up to their fights with ali. you can see how mad he was getting when bonavena started calling him clay at that press conference.

Last edited by groove; 05-28-2011 at 07:27 AM.
groove is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 08:18 AM   #24
Waynegrade
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,051
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

At first I think he did it to push the fight. But, I think Ali saw that he was getting to Frazier,on a deeply personal level. And (I am an Ali fan too ) I really feel Ali sought to undermine Frazier in the black community. The uncle Tom references really got to Frazier who was a very honorable and proud black man. At one point Frazier said` if I did any tomming it was for him` (Ali). He lobbied for Ali to get his license back so he could earn a living. Ali kept at Frazier about being the white mans chump, but then he kept calling him gorilla ? Saying he was to ugly to be world champ ? I thought he went over the top with Frazier, a true champion and a good man as well. However Ali could have a mean streak with certain opponents (Terrell,Liston etc) and Frazier was at the top of Ali`s list...
Waynegrade is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 08:23 AM   #25
Waynegrade
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,051
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove View Post
it started cuz frazier kept calling him clay in interviews, tv etc. patterson and terrell also kept calling him clay in the run up to their fights with ali. you can see how mad he was getting when bonavena started calling him clay at that press conference.
That happened because Frazier was doing many things to help exiled Ali, money, spend time with,helping to get his ban lifted. How did Ali repay him ? He went off on Ali in front of a bunch of people at one point, to the dismay of Frazier. Ali turned first on Frazier, that`s when the Clay references came into play.
Waynegrade is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 09:01 AM   #26
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,049
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Think how pompous and ridiculous it sounds to hate someone because they are calling you by the name you called yourself just a couple of years earlier !

Unforgiven is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 09:32 AM   #27
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waynegrade View Post
That happened because Frazier was doing many things to help exiled Ali, money, spend time with,helping to get his ban lifted. How did Ali repay him ? He went off on Ali in front of a bunch of people at one point, to the dismay of Frazier. Ali turned first on Frazier, that`s when the Clay references came into play.
Actually,Frazier was referring to Ali as Clay as early as 1967. Before Muhammad had started verbally on Joe. Maybe this was at the back of Ali's mind.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 10:50 AM   #28
P00ckerh00ked
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Mind-Game. Hype . Selling Tickets . It Gave Howard Cosell and
the faggots that made "Thrilla In Manila" SOMETHING
to talk about .
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #29
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,635
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Ali, had a certain amount of cruelty in his remarks to Joe Frazier,that cannot be dimissed as just hype. This BS excusing Ali for "taunting" opponents on the canvass, is just an excuse. I never saw a Louis, a Robinson, an Arguello doing that. Conversely, Ali had warmth after he past his prime and then retired. A contradiction in terms was Ali !
Great personality, only matched by his ego...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 01:57 PM   #30
johnmaff36
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 2,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Muhammad Ali so mean to Joe Frazier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Ali, had a certain amount of cruelty in his remarks to Joe Frazier,that cannot be dimissed as just hype. This BS excusing Ali for "taunting" opponents on the canvass, is just an excuse. I never saw a Louis, a Robinson, an Arguello doing that. Conversely, Ali had warmth after he past his prime and then retired. A contradiction in terms was Ali !
Great personality, only matched by his ego...
I never seen Ali taunt an opponent on the canvas EVER, unless you wanna call the 2nd Liston fight taunting. Any examples of this please as i genuinely cant recall him ever doing it.
johnmaff36 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013