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Old 05-28-2011, 09:26 AM   #1
JabCross
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Default Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

Hey guys, I'm obviously new here, so first off I'd like to say hello.

I've been training for a few good months now, but it's really only as of late that I've started to kick up the intensity of my routine at home. I've just started to understand the concepts and differences between anaerobic and aerobic respiration, and I really want to take my roadwork to the next level, seeing as I think that it doesn't have enough anaerobic conditioning involved. I was wondering, other than hill sprints, what are some good roadwork exercises that can improve my anaerobic fitness? I've started to run in intervals, running flat out, somewhere between a jog and a sprint for 2 minutes and then slowing down to a steady, 'recovery' jog for a minute, then repeating. Would this sort of interval running work my anaerobic or aerobic fitness? How often should integrate anaerobic conditioning into my roadwork?

Thanks in advance guys, and sorry for asking so many questions, but I am kind of new to this sort of stuff, so any helpful answers would be grately appreciated. Cheers guys.
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

Quote:
Originally Posted by JabCross View Post
Hey guys, I'm obviously new here, so first off I'd like to say hello.

I've been training for a few good months now, but it's really only as of late that I've started to kick up the intensity of my routine at home. I've just started to understand the concepts and differences between anaerobic and aerobic respiration, and I really want to take my roadwork to the next level, seeing as I think that it doesn't have enough anaerobic conditioning involved. I was wondering, other than hill sprints, what are some good roadwork exercises that can improve my anaerobic fitness? I've started to run in intervals, running flat out, somewhere between a jog and a sprint for 2 minutes and then slowing down to a steady, 'recovery' jog for a minute, then repeating. Would this sort of interval running work my anaerobic or aerobic fitness? How often should integrate anaerobic conditioning into my roadwork?

Thanks in advance guys, and sorry for asking so many questions, but I am kind of new to this sort of stuff, so any helpful answers would be grately appreciated. Cheers guys.
No problem JabCross,

Here is what I've got:

Would this sort of interval running work my anaerobic or aerobic fitness?
It would work the aerobic system. The anaerobic energy system has very little capacity to improve.

What are some good roadwork exercises to improve my anaerobic fitness? Hill sprints, intervals. NOTHING over 12-15 seconds. You must do these all out.


How often should I integrate anaerobic conditioning into my roadwork?
Hill sprints, intervals(full intensity) of 10-12 seconds with complete recovery, heart rate under 120bpm. Maybe 10-15 intervals.

Please know that I mean this in no way to be disrespectful as it is difficult to decipher through an internet post. In saying that, after reading your thread, I think you may not have a full understanding of what are the differences and capacities of these two systems.

I wrote a long thread called aerobic energy system. Type it into this search engine. I tried to write it as "user friendly" as possible. It should hopefully help you to have a better understanding on your questions.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

Thanks a heap Von, great post, and I checked out your thread too and it was very informative, definitely gave me a better insight on the anaerobic and aerobic systems.

With the short-burst sprints that you mentioned, should I be aiming to reach a certain distance within those 10-12 seconds, or does it not matter, so long as I am going all out and lifting my heart rate?
Also, for aerobic training, would you recommend those 2 minutes intervals that I mentioned, or just constant LSD running?
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

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Originally Posted by JabCross View Post
Also, for aerobic training, would you recommend those 2 minutes intervals that I mentioned, or just constant LSD running?
2-3 min intervals with 2-3 min rests are great for working lactate acid threshold and does a decent job of working vo2 max.

theres a method where you do 15 second sprints with 15 second recovery over and over for about 4 mins? that isnt as good for lactate acid threshold (as the above method) but is much better for improving vo2 max.

im not very familar with this method as far as if 4 mins? is the correct time you want to be doing them as well im not sure how long you would want to rest between the 4 min sets. perhaps some one else can give you better information on this method.

basically with the 2-3 min intervals your reaching your vo2 max by the end of the 3 mins, and with the 15/15 for 4 mins? you get your oxygen consumption up then rest then get it up even higher then rest then get it up even higher then rest then even higher then rest so by the time youve done a few (4-6?) 15/15's your also hitting your vo2 max.

1 min intervals are not needed in case you ever consider doing them.

if your an amateur id recommend the LSD 1-2 times a week with the rest of your non boxing specific training coming from the interval stuff above.

if your a pro id reccomend the lsd 3-4 times a week with interval training 1-2 times a week. as a pro your going to be doing alot of 3 min rounds with 1 min rests that will more then supplement the extra interval training you would have done as an amateur.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

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Originally Posted by JabCross View Post
With the short-burst sprints that you mentioned, should I be aiming to reach a certain distance within those 10-12 seconds, or does it not matter, so long as I am going all out and lifting my heart rate?
Also, for aerobic training, would you recommend those 2 minutes intervals that I mentioned, or just constant LSD running?
JabCross, you're welcome. Don't aim for a certain distance, just 100% intensity. The heart rate should not raise above anaerobic threshold IF you have decent cardiovascular conditioning and you are lowering heart rate to specific bpm in between each interval.

The 2 minute intervals would be fine, there are many other methods you can use. I would recommend the LSD until your resting heart rate is in the mid to low 50s. Then, go into some of the interval work.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:23 PM   #6
JabCross
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

Ok, thanks Von, been a great help.

Also, thanks for your contribution too, Ylem.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

You can sprint for 2 mins...?
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

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Originally Posted by vonLPC View Post
I wrote a long thread called aerobic energy system. Type it into this search engine. I tried to write it as "user friendly" as possible. It should hopefully help you to have a better understanding on your questions.
Hey vonLPC, do you mind finding that post and giving a link? i searched the forum and scanned through 5pages of "aerobic energy systems" and did not see the post you're talking about. i did find a couple other times you referenced it. i would like the opportunity to read it before i post my (possibly outdated) opinions/suggestions. i'm always up to learn new things and appreciate the opportunity to grow.

thanks!
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

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You can sprint for 2 mins...?
This is what I was thinking.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

BoxinScience USA,

It is the very first thread if you simply type "aerobic energy system" into this search engine. I think this is the link:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Yeah, nobody can sprint for 2 minutes. 80% or 8 on RPE for a 2 minute "sprint."
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:19 AM   #11
JabCross
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
You can sprint for 2 mins...?
Haha, I wish man. It's like halfway between a sprint and a jog. It's faster than my usual run, but just fast enough so that I can just manage to keep going at a decent pace for 2 minutes. Not that it's overly fast anyway, seeing as I've only recently started to run seriously, but it pushes me, and that's what counts, right?
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

this is the information i've been using for about 15 years. it doesn't really contradict anything previously mentioned. but hopefully compliments it. if any of you have any data that conflicts with this, please send me the link. i'd appreciate hearing/learning more. thanks.

Below you will find a brief description of the two main energy systems and their sub-systems:
Anaerobic (ATP fuel produced without oxygen)
Anaerobic Alactic (ATP produced without oxygen, without lactic acid by-product)
-initial (approximate) 10 seconds of work
-fuel used is Adenosine Triphosphate-Creatine Phosphate (ATP-CP)

Anaerobic Lactic (ATP produced without oxygen, with lactic acid as a byproduct)
-for (approximate) 60-80 seconds of work
-fuel is ATP formed through the anaerobic glycolysis system. After the initial 10 seconds of work, the anaerobic glycolysis system kicks in to break down the ATP using carbohydrate stores in the form of glycogen, stored in the liver and muscles. The byproduct of this process is lactic acid, which gives the burning sensation in the muscles during high intensity levels of work

Aerobic (ATP fuel produced in the presence of oxygen)
-glycogen is predominantly burned in the presence of oxygen upward from 70 seconds until approximately 25-120 minutes. This is when fat is burned to produce the ATP fuel. Protein will be used as a reserve source if the duration of work exceeds 2 hours.

It is also useful to know that these energy systems do not have clearly defined on-off switches. The boundaries do blur. The approximate 50/50 mark of both anaerobic and aerobic is around 70 seconds. This is known as the Anaerobic Threshold (AT). A way to know when you are hitting that mark is to monitor your heart rate (HR). The AT is, on average, between 168-170 beats per minute (bpm). Any HR reading above that is dominated by the anaerobic and any reading below is primarily by the aerobic system.

*Periodization: Theory and Methodogy of Training, 4th Ed., Human Kinetics Publishing, pp 20-24

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Old 05-31-2011, 04:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

That is right Boxin Science, although Lactic acid is not what they once thought it was, which was a byproduct. That is the only thing that is off. Unfortunately, many do not know how to put that information into context when developing a program.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

To double down, drink a teaspoon of baking soda with as much water as it takes to go down before a workout. Warning, it is BRUTAL (tasting), but if you are going to put in work? It will help you take your workout to the next level. Start slowly working up your tolerance, taste and stomach.

Also try to cut back on any and all sodium if possible and pound water afterward.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Anaerobic Training & Roadwork

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Originally Posted by bald_head_slick View Post
To double down, drink a teaspoon of baking soda with as much water as it takes to go down before a workout. Warning, it is BRUTAL (tasting), but if you are going to put in work? It will help you take your workout to the next level. Start slowly working up your tolerance, taste and stomach.
Hmm, never heard about this before. What exactly is the purpose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bald_head_slick View Post
Also try to cut back on any and all sodium if possible and pound water afterward.
Well this I wouldn't recommend, as I mentioned in that other guys thread last month that low sodium/high water lead to muscle breakdown and leakage for me.

edit: oops, unless you meant cut back on sodium if you're gonna take the baking soda.
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