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Old 05-28-2011, 08:17 PM   #16
Will Cooling
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Default Re: the shamrocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
It's a damn shame Franks prime was in the 'dark ages', maybe hurt his legacy retiring the 1st time like he did, but he was leagues ahead of Ken at their best
Let's been honest. What destroyed his legacy is not agreeing to come back to the UFC in 2006 and be jobbed out to Georges St. Pierre. He did that he'd be a UFC Hall of Famer, his fights would be on the 100 Greatest Fights DVD and he'd be featured in the UFC mythology as a living legend.

To me Shamrock's run as light heavyweight champion is just as impressive as any other title reign unless you go into ranking the relative strength of the sport at the time - which as Bert Sugar always says is completely unfair. In that title run he beat everybody put in front of him, including the man who would rule the division for four years, despite being terribly undersized.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:19 PM   #17
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I know this, but look how guys like Hamza view Frank, probably just based on the Li and Diaz fights. Ive read some stupid shit he's posted, and outstruck by Ken is up there
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:22 PM   #18
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I know...its laughable. They don't understand that Shamrock was using his name to grow the sport in California.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:23 PM   #19
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Maybe I was a bit harsh as they are difficult fights to track down. But I managed it
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:26 PM   #20
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I'm pretty sure the UFC vault has some of Frank's big title fights. I know I watched Frank vs Tito on there sometime last year.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:27 PM   #21
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQO3gVkvCSw&feature=related[/ame]
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: the shamrocks

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I'm pretty sure the UFC vault has some of Frank's big title fights. I know I watched Frank vs Tito on there sometime last year.
I had a torrent of the events, but this was maybe 3/4 years ago
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:30 PM   #23
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I love Frank vs Tito...I mean Frank should not be able to win that fight, the size difference is HUGE. But he just wears down Tito until Mr Jenna is a sitting duck. One of the great UFC title fights.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:34 PM   #24
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I love Frank vs Tito...I mean Frank should not be able to win that fight, the size difference is HUGE. But he just wears down Tito until Mr Jenna is a sitting duck. One of the great UFC title fights.
I agree, one of the great comeback wins. And was a shock seeing Tito being relatively humble afterwards
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: the shamrocks

[dm]x4sq8g_frankshamrockvsdanhenderson_sport[/dm]
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:34 PM   #26
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When you step back, this is actually a great question because they both developed up in front of us as fighters in about the same period of time.

Like Roy Jones Jr., the public has a very short memory of Ken Shamrock. They look at recent times rather than "prime". And boy, recent fights skew even the most objective opinion.

Looking at early UFC's...Shamrock was as developed a fighter as there was. Great cardio, great strength, implemented punching AND ground game. It was nothing like I'd ever seen...and he lived up to his moniker as the "Most Dangerous Man on the Planet."

I did not know of Frank until a little before he fought Tito Ortiz. But it seems like Frank was by far one of the most well-rounded fighters in the game at that time. He could box, kickbox, bring it on the ground, and had cardio (it was this last factor that saved him against a young, hungry Tito Ortiz...if anyone can remember what that guy used to be).

Head to head...it's a close call. Ken's strength and, although I think some would disagree, his ground game would be very difficult for Frank.

However, Frank was a total package...even though he was a little smaller than Ken (based on my scattered memory). I just think Frank's development and skill set would trump Ken at his best. Had Ken come around 5 years later and had a different "Ken Shamrock" to learn from (like Frank did), it might be a very different story.

It's still a hard comparison because even within the window of a few years, the smartest fighters trained out of their comfort zone in different disciplines. Ken was the first to show that, but it was not nearly as complete as Frank.

With this being a modern day Champion of Champions Fight, I'm implementing the modern 5x5 rounds, and the Jo Son no-sack-swiping rule.

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Obviously garnering plenty of fanfare, this matchup is the best of personal grudge match and martial arts combat. The press conference resembles big brother teasing little brother, but on the grandest stage. A visibly annoyed Frank shakes hands with his taunting brother before returning to their dressing rooms for the battle of brothers.

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After a tense stare down and briefing of the new rules...it's time to answer the question enthusiasts, and brothers, have been asking for years.
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And here we go!!


Round 1:
Highly emotional first round is difficult to score, with Ken staggering Frank before they GnP it...Ken dominating position and takes the round.
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He is feeling confident...Frank is a little surprised.
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Round 2:
Ken comes out with same intensity,

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jumping on Frank early...but Frank is effective in neutralizing Ken's wild swings. Midway through the round, they stand up and Frank's superior striking begins to show. Ken eats a leg kick, before Frank follows up with a combination that opens a cut on Ken's nose and sends him back pedaling across the ring. Frank pursues and takes him to the ground. The round ends with both fighters breathing heavy.

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: the shamrocks

Round 3:
Ken remains emotional, the cut seems to have sped up the coming of his second win. Both fighters come out cautious, the 2 rounds of action already showing. Ken fires off a double jab, both catching Frank before a right hand send Frank to the ground.
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The crowd explodes! Frank is in trouble. Ken unloads, hammer fists rain down on Frank as he struggles to regain his composure.

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Big John McArthy looks ready to step in...is Frank too tough for his own good?
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Frank manages to hold off an inspired Ken, using his extensive arsenal to reverse position. The storm has clearly taken its toll and he emerges from the round them bloody and battered.

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: the shamrocks

Round 4:

Ken comes out showing respect for his bother's resolve, and steps forward to touch gloves.

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Frank will have none of it and waves him off. The two trade punches in the middle of the ring. Each fighter is staggered, but they continue this epic back and forth until Frank steps back with a leg kick, that buckles the elder Shamrock.
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Frank seizes his opportunity and explodes with a knee!


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Ken crumples to the ground and Frank jumps on top of him. Thundering elbows and punches land at will as the exhausted Ken pulls guard, trying to survive this seesaw battle.

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Big John waits as long as he can, but it is clear that Ken is done. He jumps in and waves the fight off despite Ken's protests.

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Frank Shamrock is announce the winner presented his "Fantasy Fight Championship Belt"
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Frank has emerged as the victor, each bears reminders of the brutality of this fight. They have answered the question of who is the better fighter.

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However, little is resolved in the family and while Frank has won the battle...perhaps Ken won the war.

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:37 PM   #29
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Sorry, I couldn't fit it all into one more condensed post. Hope you guys got a chuckle.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: the shamrocks

Frank very very good.

Ken was OK.
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