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Old 06-02-2011, 12:26 PM   #1
Flea Man
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Default Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

For Zuffa brand? Say, 225 or 230?

And then make HW unlimited?

Discuss.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

Id like to keep the 265 limit for HW tbh, but a cruiser division has a case because of the gulf in size between the guys to big to cut to LHW and the bigger HW's such as Big Foot and Fedor
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

I say yes. Big lightheavys and small heavys (like Jon Jones and Fedor Emelianenko) would be better fighting each other than trying to match up with the superheavyweight monsters (Antonio Silva, Alistair Overeem and any guys out there who can't even make 265!).
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

There's not enough talent to justify it.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

I was thinking though, if a fighter with Stefan Struves dimensions, but with significantly more bulk arrived, and was very talented, would the UFC miss out on such a talent by him not being able to make the weight?

Mad hypothetical I know, but....well, Struve is young, he might bulk up to try and strengthen his punch resistance, he himself could outgrow the division.

And if there is a Cruiserweight champion dominant enough that the fans call for him to go up and challenge the HW kingpin, it will happen. But as has already been said, there's a lot of talented fighters that could make for good fights with each other between 206-230. Roy Nelson could make the cut. Someone like Chad Griggs would be entertaining. Big Nog, Phil David and Jon Jones would be able to come in at a more natural weight.

Or they could decide to keep cutting and enjoy a ccomfortable weight advantage, difference being is that it's hard to castigate them when they can do it safely and the next div' up is such a big jump.

But if there was a 'Cruiserweight' division, it'd be much easier to force the issue

Fedor @ 225? Sounds good to me. A cut to 205 would be stupid, but he'd still be bullishly strong, powerful and skilled enough to fight guys around his own size IMO, without fighting guys so fast his own natural advantages over bigger competitors isn't too compromised.

It's hardly a stupid inclusion, unlike Diego Sanchez calling for a 165 and Welter to move up to 175. A stone is not too bad. But if say, Jon Jones can't make the cut anymore and bulks up to say, 225-230, to retain his own speed, I would think someone like Overeem, JDS or Cain would **** him up, although he obviously has a bit of growing to do and God knows what he might morph into.

We don't want fighters getting it easy, but I think with the amount of quality fighters around that range, (and can anyone think of guys struggling at 205 that would feel more comfortable jumping up to 225-230? Rampage?) that competition would still be fervant.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

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There's not enough talent to justify it.
You don't think? Big 205ers small 265ers....there must be a fair few of those.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

We need less weight divisions, not more.

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Old 06-02-2011, 12:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

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Originally Posted by tri-pod View Post
We need less weight divisions, not more.

But this is a valid shout IMO.

Not like 165
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

Terrible, terrible idea.

There just isn't the depth in talent to support such a division. You have to look at it in the context of the current sport. Virtually every fighter in the UFC cuts 15-20Ibs. So a 225Ibs division wouldn't be for the likes of Jon Jones and Phil Davis as they'd still want to cut weight to go into their fights with a weight advantage. A 225Ibs division would actually be for the likes of Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir, natural 245Ibs who currently don't cut weight. You'd basically slice the heavyweight division in half with the 'heavyweight' weight class being full of 260Ibers who would not longer be pushed to improve their speed, cardio, etc by having to fight slightly smaller but faster guys.

As well you have to remember that a crusierweight division would be sandwiched between two of the most marketable divisions in the sport. It would therefore attract a significantly lesser quality of fighter than any other division. It wouldn't just be dominant crusierweight champions who moved - pretty much any champion after a couple of defenses would be egged on to move up. Look at boxing - anybody who's any good either cuts to 175Ibs or goes up to heavyweight. Why? Because nobody cares about crusierweights.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

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Originally Posted by tri-pod View Post
We need less weight divisions, not more.

Huh? How is seven too many?
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Will Cooling View Post
Terrible, terrible idea.

There just isn't the depth in talent to support such a division. You have to look at it in the context of the current sport. Virtually every fighter in the UFC cuts 15-20Ibs. So a 225Ibs division wouldn't be for the likes of Jon Jones and Phil Davis as they'd still want to cut weight to go into their fights with a weight advantage. A 225Ibs division would actually be for the likes of Cain Velasquez and Frank Mir, natural 245Ibs who currently don't cut weight. You'd basically slice the heavyweight division in half with the 'heavyweight' weight class being full of 260Ibers who would not longer be pushed to improve their speed, cardio, etc by having to fight slightly smaller but faster guys.

As well you have to remember that a crusierweight division would be sandwiched between two of the most marketable divisions in the sport. It would therefore attract a significantly lesser quality of fighter than any other division. It wouldn't just be dominant crusierweight champions who moved - pretty much any champion after a couple of defenses would be egged on to move up. Look at boxing - anybody who's any good either cuts to 175Ibs or goes up to heavyweight. Why? Because nobody cares about crusierweights.
First and foremost, the sport is new enough to establish such a divison IMO.

I here your points about Velasquez and whatnot, those are good points.

I guess I just disagree at big cuts, as there are guys out there who are genuinely stuck at a natural weight too small for the massive guys, and too big to cut the weight. 205 to 265 is a massive leap, when you consider the big boys there are cutting to 265.

I actually think boxing is different, and that Cruiserweight is fairly useless. But I think there's a difference in grappling with a guy who outweighs you massively, and that grappling favours bigger guys in a way that boxing doesn't (i.e ssome of these big giants in boxing are getting by as the division is so poor) and that the kind of big guy that will be lining the Heavyweight division is a few years is going to be Hell for anyone not of a similar size. Their will be exceptions of course....but was just a thought
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

See I'd disagree on that - I think its easier to bridge the size gap in MMA than in boxing, providing you have the right skill set. If the smaller fighter has a significant wrestling advantage then they can use that to get the guy onto the ground where the size difference is less important. Plus clinch striking can negate the issue of height/reach advantage.
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Will Cooling View Post
See I'd disagree on that - I think its easier to bridge the size gap in MMA than in boxing, providing you have the right skill set. If the smaller fighter has a significant wrestling advantage then they can use that to get the guy onto the ground where the size difference is less important. Plus clinch striking can negate the issue of height/reach advantage.
This is true also.

I will also say that you shouldn't get too hung up on the title 'cruiserweight'. 200lbs is not too highly loved in Boxing (nowadays) but is one of MMAs matinee divisions.

I honestly think 225/230 would work. But you have provided a solid counter argument
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

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Originally Posted by Will Cooling View Post
Huh? How is seven too many?
It's opening the door for more, see boxing.

We'll have a new weight class for every five pounds.

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Old 06-02-2011, 02:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is a 'Cruiserweight' division a good idea?

Except its not. No new weight classes have been created, they're just letting smaller fighters fight in the UFC. Eight divisions (add flyweight) is fine. Its when they start dividing weight classes that we should worry.
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