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Old 06-03-2011, 02:38 PM   #1
mmafrank
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Default Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

Allow me to introduce myself I am a die-hard MMA fan but watching such boxing based MMA fighters like BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, Dominick Cruz, Sergi Kharitoniv, Tim Syliva I've come to admire the techniques of boxing and even fell in love with the sport.

I do watch the odd boxing card on some occasions but I'm no expert. Perhaps joining this forum will peak my interest even further.

Watching these kind of fighters made me realize that hey maybe Muay Thai isn't the end all be all of striking and perhaps these MMA guys should visit their local boxing gyms to refine some technique. Some of the MT/kickboxing guys have good hands but for the most part MMA "boxing" is laughable.

No use of the jab, no use of range, no head movement, embarrassing footwork. It's like rock 'em sock' em robots out there swinging overhand rights and haymakers. On numerous occasions I hear so and so went to Thailand to work with MT gurus to prepare for a fight and in that fight they get lit up with basic boxing techniques.


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Old 06-03-2011, 03:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

More of a compromise with the stance, less use of kicks from range and less use of the knees in the clinch tan Muay Thai

Few notable guys are proving that boxing can succede, Frankie, BJ, and GSP likes to use it against Kos and Shields as he's less vunerable to take downs by kicking
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

And quite simply, wrestlers are bigger in the upper torso, making throwing fluid boxing combo's more difficult
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

Plus they have numerous styles and backgrounds which can make a transition more difficult. For example, a Kickboxing background (kenpo) will adapt better than a Brazilian Jujitsu background. Spot on Stoo about the wrestlers being top heavy.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

While I believe 99% of MMA fighters could benefit greatly from some dedicated boxing work, I'm not sure what people expect to see from them.

The stance is different, head movement is different, footwork is different, range is different. There are kicks, knees, take downs, clinching, etc.

The jab is a tricky one. Some guys have made good use of it, with some guys it's virtually non-existent, but the same can be said of some boxers. Some guys in MMA prefer to use the push kick or teep kck, or an inside thigh kick instead of a jab.

Different different different.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

it is not boxing they learn. There is no in fighting, fighting off the rope, no fighting off the shoulder, no fighting off the break or in a clinch. this why these guys could not beat a club fighter
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

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Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
And quite simply, wrestlers are bigger in the upper torso, making throwing fluid boxing combo's more difficult
RJJ had a bigger upper torso too and he was lighting fast and came out with some good combos once in a while.

it all comes down to how much you are willing to sacrifice some ppl go with MT cuz its both legs and hands they use but their hand techniques are not the best i have seen.
GSP threw that over the top over hand right and im pretty sure roach didnt teach him that.
JDS has some good basic boxing skills he is prolly the guy who has come the furthest with boxing
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

Boxing is DEFINITELY underrated in MMA. I think it's should be like GI jiujitsu. You THINK it's not the same but in a way it perfects your technique. You simply don't DO certain things unless you know they'll work and hurt.

BJJ/boxing knowledgeable people see if you agree with me:

In BJJ when you have a GI you tend to know when you have someone tied down and THEN you go for that submission. It's generally a bit slower because of ability to grip better, but at the same time you know that without a grip certain moves are either risky or ineffective. In a sense you perfect your technique.

Similar with boxing. You have bigger and ticker gloves and a smaller ring. So good solid punches, STRAIGHT straights, good footwork matter much more. You tend to concentrate on those aspects. Thus perfecting your technique.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

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Originally Posted by ufoalf View Post
Boxing is DEFINITELY underrated in MMA. I think it's should be like GI jiujitsu. You THINK it's not the same but in a way it perfects your technique. You simply don't DO certain things unless you know they'll work and hurt.

BJJ/boxing knowledgeable people see if you agree with me:

In BJJ when you have a GI you tend to know when you have someone tied down and THEN you go for that submission. It's generally a bit slower because of ability to grip better, but at the same time you know that without a grip certain moves are either risky or ineffective. In a sense you perfect your technique.

Similar with boxing. You have bigger and ticker gloves and a smaller ring. So good solid punches, STRAIGHT straights, good footwork matter much more. You tend to concentrate on those aspects. Thus perfecting your technique.
To a certain extent, yes. Gi jiujitsu makes you more technical because of the grips and friction provided by the gi. For example, you can't just power your way out of an armbar or triangle, because there's so much grip provided by the gi, you need to use technique to escape or counter. Then, when you switch to no-gi or mma, you can use the technique you've developed with the gi, and add to that your power and a whole lot less friction and off you go. But not everything carries over from gi to no-gi/mma, 90% of your chokes are gone, your sleeve, collar, and hip controls (grabbing the pants) are gone and a lot of your techniques need to be scrapped or modified because they leave you too open for strikes

Boxing is similar, your hands will get better, your defense against hands will get better, you footwork for boxing will get better, but just like gi-work to mma, not everything carries over, you footwork will need to change drastically, you're allowed to hold and hit, there's elbows, knees, etc.

Like I said, there are huge benefits to be had from boxing training for MMA, but I'm not sure what people expect to see when they say boxing is under-utilised in MMA, a lot of it just won't transition to full MMA, much the way gi-bjj won't transfer to full MMA.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

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Originally Posted by Primate View Post
Like I said, there are huge benefits to be had from boxing training for MMA, but I'm not sure what people expect to see when they say boxing is under-utilised in MMA, a lot of it just won't transition to full MMA, much the way gi-bjj won't transfer to full MMA.
I used to believe that too. Until I started seeing better technique by MMA fighters when they use their hands. It's clear as day. Before I thought it was sloppy because it's MMA therefore different variables. Now I becoming more of a believer that it's simply under trained or trained ineffectively.

I think MMA fighters simply need to put on boxing gloves and get in a ring a lot more to realize what works when you use your hands and what does not and forget about the variable that MMA introduces. They are aware of those variables and they will naturally make adjustments.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmafrank View Post
Allow me to introduce myself I am a die-hard MMA fan but watching such boxing based MMA fighters like BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, Dominick Cruz, Sergi Kharitoniv, Tim Syliva I've come to admire the techniques of boxing and even fell in love with the sport.

I do watch the odd boxing card on some occasions but I'm no expert. Perhaps joining this forum will peak my interest even further.

Watching these kind of fighters made me realize that hey maybe Muay Thai isn't the end all be all of striking and perhaps these MMA guys should visit their local boxing gyms to refine some technique. Some of the MT/kickboxing guys have good hands but for the most part MMA "boxing" is laughable.

No use of the jab, no use of range, no head movement, embarrassing footwork. It's like rock 'em sock' em robots out there swinging overhand rights and haymakers. On numerous occasions I hear so and so went to Thailand to work with MT gurus to prepare for a fight and in that fight they get lit up with basic boxing techniques.


Discuss
I think your info is a little dated TBH , most of the top MMA camps have boxing coaches who are proffesional boxing coaches but turned some of there attention to MMA as there is basically more clientel which means more revenue for the coaches .

Muay Thai has IMHO never been seen as the premier stand up discipline in MMA , example you still have fighters at the top of the sport who cannot and do not engage in throwing many kicks , Penn , Rampage , Evans , Couture , and so on therefore for me boxing is still more relevant in MMA than Muay Thai , Kick Boxing or Karate

The difference being , is the level of coaching , and the level of sparring you get in the single discipline of boxing , take for example a boxers weekly training session could include sparring 5 days a week , and that will be 4 - 6 rounds minimum against fellow pro boxers , mixed martial artists may box spar 3 times a week however in most cases against other MMA fighters , barring the small percentage of fighters travelling into pro gyms sparring with pro's . So you have MMA figters getting professional coaching in boxing , but not sparring with pro's , that there for me is the downfall .

Added to that , you have to bear in mind that boxing is just a tiny percentage of an MMA fighters skill set , and they have to train other area's in there everyday training regimes as well as boxing .

Additionally there is such a term as boxing for MMA , where you adapt your boxing style to suit MMA , therefore you take a solid boxing base lets take Jose Aldo as an example and you modify that style to suit MMA , therfore Aldo now uses his hands to set up other strikes and uses his various other dimensions to actually finish the fight , this was clearly evident against Mark Hominick who in a boxing match IMO would box Aldo's head off ........... , and in other fighters like Rashad Evans , Thiago Sliva , BJ Penn etc etc .
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

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Originally Posted by ufoalf View Post
I think MMA fighters simply need to put on boxing gloves and get in a ring a lot more to realize what works when you use your hands and what does not and forget about the variable that MMA introduces. They are aware of those variables and they will naturally make adjustments.
Yeah, this is kinda what I mean. Almost all of them could benefit from tightening up their hands, and certain guys have decent hands, even if they're not known as 'boxers' or strikers. George Sotiropoulos is an excellent example of a guy who uses some really fundamental boxing skills (1-2s and head movement), but uses it to set up his take downs and impose his ground game.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

ATT has Howard Davis Jr. as their boxing coach.

BORKED

BORKED

He also works with Liddell.

BORKED


Freddie Roach tried to help Arlovski but you can't fix a glass jaw.

BORKED
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

Roach trained Arolvski for the Fedor fight right?
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why don't MMA fighters train more boxing.

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Roach trained Arolvski for the Fedor fight right?
Yep he's been training him for the past few years.
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