Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-03-2007, 07:07 AM   #106
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
Look, if you're just going to keep nitpicking little phrases out of my posts and ignoring the overwhelming majority of the points (which debunk your snappy little anti-Dempsey quips), this is going to become deeply tedious.

Second, you're just spinning numbers here. Miske had lost two of his last five in very close decisions, both to elite-level opponents (Norfolk and Gibbons). Since then, he had draws with Brennan and Levinsky (again, both legitimate ranking fighters) and had won his last fight. Miske had a career as a legitimate elite fighter and had beaten many name opponents. After losing to Dempsey, he went on a huge winning streak and beat guys like Brennan, Gibbons, and, by the way, Meehan himself, by a crushing one-round knockout! If you're going to pretend you can't see the difference between this and a journeyman who was consistently going to draws and losses with non-entities on the world scale like Hugh Walker and Martin Burke, then there's pretty much no use in even trying to talk to you.
Well said. Miske was a top fighter in his time. Meehan was one of those rare journeymen capable of going the distance with just about anyone, and occasionally upsetting ranked fighters.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-03-2007, 07:13 AM   #107
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
According to a few newspaper accounts OLD FOGEY posted here a while back, Dempsey wasn't robbed as clearly as Jorgensen's article makes it sound, but it was definitely close, it was only a four-rounder, it was a semi-exhibitionish fight at a charity event, and Dempsey probably wasn't taking it very seriously. I don't really think this is an enormous blotch on Dempsey's legacy.
I agree with this. Two things to focus on here.

1 ) Meehan wasn't that bad. Meehan has wins over Jeff Clark, Sam Langford, Jack Demspey, and Jack Dillion! Three of these fighters are in the hall of fame, and one day, I predict Clark will get the nod as well. As I said before, Meehan went 100+ matches with one lone stoppage.

2 ) This was a 4 round match with no titles on the line in an era were draws were more frequent than they were today.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 07:47 AM   #108
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalize
Dempsey is a top ATG fighter --- top 5 heavy
I think so too.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 10:54 AM   #109
prime
BOX! Writing Champion
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Guadalajara, Jal., Mexico
Posts: 1,230
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
I think so too.
Ditto.
prime is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 01:37 AM   #110
OLD FOGEY
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,835
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmt
do you mean to say that these articles in SF that u read were written three years after the actual bout?
No. They are from the next day. I meant that I read them three years ago or so and do not have notes. I am just pointing out that I am relying on my aging memory, never the best thing to do, but I have no choice in this case.
OLD FOGEY is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2007, 01:44 AM   #111
OLD FOGEY
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,835
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Well said. Miske was a top fighter in his time. Meehan was one of those rare journeymen capable of going the distance with just about anyone, and occasionally upsetting ranked fighters.
Miske was certainly one of the top men of the time, but he did lose to men like Gibbons, Greb, and Norfolk around the time he fought his fights with Dempsey. His draw with Dempsey is sandwiched between two defeats by Kid Norfolk. The point is that someone like Miske was an
outstanding fighter of his time but not necessarily better or perhaps even as good as the outstanding contenders of other eras, such as, for example, Bob Pastor or Eddie Machen.
OLD FOGEY is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 02:55 PM   #112
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
I guess Meehan never agreed to fight Dempsey outside of California state, with it's stupid law of allowing only 4 rounds fights.
Intersting information.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 03:08 PM   #113
SuzieQ49
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 13,492
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

I dont think dempsey is top 5 HW of all time. not without a win over wills. Wills arguebably can be ranked higher than jack dempsey.


As much as people love to praise dempsey's astonishing looking definive skills on film, he sure has hell struggled, got stunned and hurt alot against crude fat southern panhandle grease looking fighters.
SuzieQ49 is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 05:00 PM   #114
joe33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
I dont think dempsey is top 5 HW of all time. not without a win over wills. Wills arguebably can be ranked higher than jack dempsey.


As much as people love to praise dempsey's astonishing looking definive skills on film, he sure has hell struggled, got stunned and hurt alot against crude fat southern panhandle grease looking fighters.

How can you rate willis above dempsey?,What makes him rank above JD then?
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 06:01 PM   #115
SuzieQ49
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 13,492
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
How can you rate willis above dempsey?,What makes him rank above JD then?

well since you ask..........


Wills beat much better competition than jack dempsey

Wills cleaned out the heavyweight division more than jack did(beating the best black heavyweights as well as top white heavyweights fulton,firpo).

Wills on his prime isnt on film, but on paper him and jack are just about an even fight, and the fact wills had a 6'4 220lb body with an 80" reach skills and a punch, he could very well upset dempsey.



Still, i rank dempsey over wills, but not by much.
SuzieQ49 is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 06:13 PM   #116
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
well since you ask..........


Wills beat much better competition than jack dempsey

Wills cleaned out the heavyweight division more than jack did(beating the best black heavyweights as well as top white heavyweights fulton,firpo).

Wills on his prime isnt on film, but on paper him and jack are just about an even fight, and the fact wills had a 6'4 220lb body with an 80" reach skills and a punch, he could very well upset dempsey.



Still, i rank dempsey over wills, but not by much.
Insightful post. I know it's hard to judge, but do you think Wills would have beaten Dempsey Suze? Obviously he has a great chance.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 06:57 PM   #117
Woddy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe33
How can you rate willis above dempsey?,What makes him rank above JD then?
This question has already been answered for the most part, but I'll throw in my two cents. Wills proceeded to beat top opposition over the three year period where Dempsey sat idle on the belt. Thats where the big difference comes in. Wills arguably beat better fighters over the long haul.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2007, 02:32 AM   #118
dmt
Hardest hitting hw ever
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why Jack Dempsey should be hightly rated

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
I dont think dempsey is top 5 HW of all time. not without a win over wills. Wills arguebably can be ranked higher than jack dempsey. .
Wills also beat better fighters then Jack Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
As much as people love to praise dempsey's astonishing looking definive skills on film, he sure has hell struggled, got stunned and hurt alot against crude fat southern panhandle grease looking fighters.
so did most other atg's
dmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013