Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

[Holmes' Jab]

Originally Posted by Amsterdam

Not a prime Tyson, Tyson would blast him in 3 rounds or less peak/peak. The difference here is that Tyson does possess 1 punch KO power at his peak, and Lewis WOULD be driven back.

Peak-period was a superb fighter, however he did have a couple of off-colour nights (Yes, even in his '86-88 hayday)- Witness the mediocre Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker standing up to him and going the distance.

Take this into account and you start to wonder what a class above those guys type fighter (ie: Lewis, Holyfield) would have done on said nights. Even Tyson at his finest would be tested against Lewis. Saying Lewis would quite simply be blasted out prime-for-prime is wide of the mark, in my view.

[George W Hedge]

Ali v Lewis.... primes.

Ali by ud.

I cant see lennox landing enough big shots to wear Ali down late on & Ali (at his best defensively when faced with danger) wont lose to anyone taking 1 shot.

I see Ali starting like he did v clev williams building up a decent lead after 5 or 6 rds but once it was clear lewis is in it for the distance, Ali paces himself using his brain + loads of lateral movement like vs terrell.

I see Ali having to concede a few rds in order to put on his usual championship rds strong finish... all in all lewis does better than williams & Terrell but still loses about.... 10-5 or 11-4.

speed & stamina win this 1 for the greatest.

[Rock0052]

Lewis either stops him, or Ali will win a woefully boring UD that, if the fight happened nowadays, would get him only slightly more love and respect as Corey Spinks.

[ironchamp]

Lewis vs. Ali?

Much like Norton this would be stylitically an uphill battle for Ali....

I think a fight with Lewis given his skill and size advantages would for force Ali to fight uncomfortably the whole night unable to do enough to win decisively.

Ali may take a decision but it would most certainly be a disputed one.

[hopkinsfan07]

this is silly Lewis isent even near Ali's level

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by hopkinsfan07

this is silly Lewis isent even near Ali's level

I disagree but let's suppose you're right - i would say that Norton wasn't, either.

Lewis is bigger, MORE patient, stronger, hits harder, is a better boxer.

[Smokin'Joe]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Because he has nothing to brag about in first part of his career.
As for post-exile Ali, his legs and his agility have diminished so much, that I don't see any other result than a KO win for Lewis, Ali was there to be hit whenever Lewis chose to.

Nothing to brag about? Who's ass didn't he whoop in his early career? And you don't think boxing the ears off of a prime Sonny Liston is anything to brag about? I beg to diffa sir.

Lewis was a much better boxer than Liston, more skilled, better footwork, harder hitter (although his jab is less powerful than Sonny's, but his right hand is better), less predictable than Liston.

Lewis might have been a better boxer, but he was just as slow as Liston and did not hit harder than either Liston or Foreman, both of whom whacked Ali with their best shots to no avail.

Lewis is to ponderous, and as far as his excellent patience goes as someone mentioned, he would be waiting for opportunites that would be out the window before he had time to react.

Ali's style is all wrong for him.

[hopkinsfan07]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I disagree but let's suppose you're right - i would say that Norton wasn't, either.

Lewis is bigger, MORE patient, stronger, hits harder, is a better boxer.

he thought Norton after his prison stuff in there first 2 and was quite past it in the 3rd fight

[Senya13]

Originally Posted by Assassin

Ali may get knocked down by a Lewis right hand but he isn't staying down.

He got almost KTFO by Henry Cooper, European mediocre cruiserweight.

[Senya13]

Originally Posted by Smokin'Joe

And you don't think boxing the ears off of a prime Sonny Liston is anything to brag about?

Anyone can see both fights were a fix. Where are any signs of injured shoulder in the 1st fight during the rounds prior to his retirement?

Lewis might have been a better boxer, but he was just as slow as Liston and did not hit harder than either Liston or Foreman, both of whom whacked Ali with their best shots to no avail.

Watch the film again before making claims about Lewis being as slow as Liston. Liston was plodding forward slowly most of the time, behind the jab. Lewis is at least twice faster on feet and hands. Foreman with his looping punches which anyone can see 5 secs before he throws them, and has enough time to go pour himself a cup of coffee while he is throwing them, still had Ali out on his feet a couple of times. Lewis wasn't as slow and as predictable and as inaccurate with his punches as was Foreman. They are not even comparable.

Lewis is to ponderous, and as far as his excellent patience goes as someone mentioned, he would be waiting for opportunites that would be out the window before he had time to react.

Lewis might be ponderous when he has something in front of him that he sees as a danger. He has nothing to be afraid of a slapper like Ali. Unlike in fixed fights with Liston, with Lewis he won't be able to run with both hands held low, as the very first time he does that, Lewis leaps forward and flattens him on his back for the full count. Ali's lack of defense and lack of punching power is all wrong against someone like Lewis.

[NickHudson]

The only Norton fight where Ali was in any sort of shape was the second, in 1973.

As this is a good 6 years past Ali's best performance, and 9 years after he first became champ it might be a bit misleading to use it as evidence...

Lewis is also slower, has less stamina, a more open defence and is more prone to one punch KOs than Norton.

Originally Posted by McGrain

I disagree but let's suppose you're right - i would say that Norton wasn't, either.

Lewis is bigger, MORE patient, stronger, hits harder, is a better boxer.

[Senya13]

Now a journeyman like Norton, who Ali almost didn't train for for the 1st fight, as he was on his 'bum of the month' tour at the time, is faster (when was the last time you watched Norton and Lewis), with great defense (whenever Ali chose to jab him while dancing on his feet, he hit Norton right on the kisser without much trouble), and with great chin (that he forgot at home almost any time he fought somebody with above average punching power).

[NickHudson]

Senya,

Have watched plenty of both men. Lewis was one of the most ponderously slow HWs I have ever seen (he is good relative to his massive size, but in absolute terms he is still slow, certainly compared to Norton).

Norton had an unusual cross armed defence that covered much of his face. Conversely, Lewis held his left hand very low indeed and didnt cover his face.

Norton got smashed by a number of ATG huge hitters, but NOONE KOd him with a single punch...Lewis was KOd twice by a single punch from glorified sparring partners.

Over to you.

Originally Posted by Senya13

Now a journeyman like Norton, who Ali almost didn't train for for the 1st fight, as he was on his 'bum of the month' tour at the time, is faster (when was the last time you watched Norton and Lewis), with great defense (whenever Ali chose to jab him while dancing on his feet, he hit Norton right on the kisser without much trouble), and with great chin (that he forgot at home almost any time he fought somebody with above average punching power).

[Senya13]

Where exactly did Norton show speed? When he was plodding after Ali (when Ali desided to move, not just walk around flat-footed)? Prime Lewis (not the old one) was extremely fast for a guy of his size and for a heavyweight in general.
Norton's defense was primitive and worked against guys who's primary weapon is a jab, but even then he was hit with jab rather frequently I'd say.
Lewis was not KO'd by McCall, he got up before the count ended, but was not quite steady forcing the referee to stop it. Norton was stopped 4 times and dropped down even more times during his career. He had a glass jaw any time he faced a dangerous puncher. Lewis had either stopped or gone the distance with several dangerous punchers.

[fists of fury]

Earnie Terrel was comparable in height and reach to Lewis, and Ali had absolutely no problem landing on Terrel. Different fighter to Lewis, but the point I'm making is that Ali is not much smaller than Lewis. Quite a bit lighter sure, but in terms of height and reach Ali is still very much in Lewis' league.
I don't think the Norton fights have any relevance here, as Norton had something in his style that Ali just never solved.
What does Lewis ring that could trouble Ali? Well, he was well-schooled in boxing's nuances and had a long, successful amateur pedigree that many well-schooled fighters have.
Lewis also has patience and would probably not succumb to Ali's mind games. A good (if somewhat lazy at times) jab, good, no great, right hand laced with TnT. Power though, never bothered Ali. He fought many guys with a lot of power, and none of them ever really bothered him that much.

Ali? Well, there's that speed of hand and foot, amazing reflexes and the ability to judge distance like nobody else. I think Ali is an underrated puncher sometimes - he got some really tough cookies out of there, inlcuding Lyle, Bonavena, Frazier (indirectly) and Foreman. (Yes, we know about the heat, but Ali's punches had something to do with it too.)
Ali did not have heavy hands per se, but he had tremendous accuracy and timing and plenty of zip in his punches. He certainly had enough 'power' to make Lewis respect it.
The better ring general? I'd say Lewis, but Ali had the knack of making a guy fight his fight.
At the end of the day I go with Ali. Lewis brings a lot to the table, but he never fancied a jab in his face and Ali had a very good jab. Ali's workrate and speed see him through to a decision win.