Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-03-2007, 06:48 PM   #106
NickHudson
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 447
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Hmmm fair enough, I can sort of see where you are coming from.

But how do you respond to the critics who point to the horrible KO losses during 'prime'?

Also, it is a mighty shame that McCall II was so incompetent, as if this was to be Lewis's night of nights we were robbed of a fine match. McCalls durability as a foil for Lewis's skills and athleticism...

I watched the fight at the time but have never seen it since as I was so disgusted by it! Did Lewis really look great that night????

I only ask as its not how I remember it, I remember him doing virtually nothing and following McCall round the ring like a puppy dog. It was a pathetic spectacle, equalled only by Lewis Akinwande.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I would say from the moment he knocked Ruddock out untill he knocked Tyson out, in other words, from 1992 to 2002.
While he had quite some fundamental flaws pre-Steward and was somewhat slowed down against Tyson, i still count them as prime years.

I think he was at his peak during the second McCall fight.
NickHudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-03-2007, 07:08 PM   #107
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Hmmm fair enough, I can sort of see where you are coming from.

But how do you respond to the critics who point to the horrible KO losses during 'prime'?
They were during his prime, no two ways about it.
Lewis looked great against Ruddock, which was before losing to McCall.
And he looked great after losing to Rahman (in the rematch and against Tyson), so the only logical conclusion is that he was in his prime for both these fights.

Now i will add that he seemed to underestimated Rahman and had some unfixed flaws in his style against McCall, but it was still his prime.

Quote:
Also, it is a mighty shame that McCall II was so incompetent, as if this was to be Lewis's night of nights we were robbed of a fine match. McCalls durability as a foil for Lewis's skills and athleticism...

I watched the fight at the time but have never seen it since as I was so disgusted by it! Did Lewis really look great that night????

I only ask as its not how I remember it, I remember him doing virtually nothing and following McCall round the ring like a puppy dog. It was a pathetic spectacle, equalled only by Lewis Akinwande.
Don't trust your memory if it's longer than 5 years ago. The memory has a way of changing the information. Sometimes exxagarating one event (in this case Lewis doing nothing and chasing McCall around), sometimes changing the event in such a way that you're more happy with it. Research has proven this. That's why i find it completly laughable when Fleischer says "well i've seen Jim Jeffries 20 years ago and he was faster than Dempsey/Tunney/whoever"... you can barely remember these things accurately enough over a few years to make such a judgement... over 5 years it is simply unreliable, especially when it comes to subjective matter like Boxing. I sometimes re-watch a fight that i haven't seen in one or two years and am suprised that the fight was quite different from what i remembered.


Anyway, about Lewis-McCall II. The first 3 rounds were genuine and Lewis showed great ability in it. He controlled McCall by keeping him on the outside with his jab and hit him with hard uppercuts on the inside. McCall tried to repeat his right hand but Lewis simply didn't allow him to. Also watch 2:00 or 1:00 minute left in round 3 (i forget which of the two), McCall lunges in and Lewis hits him with a beautiful, hard counter right hand, and momentarily staggers McCall.. which is the only time i've ever seen McCall stagger. Here is where McCall realised that he couldn't land on Lewis and had to pay for trying everytime by hard counter shots. He feared another long, painful night like against Bruno and broke down.

Round 4 & 5 are appartantly the only rounds which you remembered because those did go as you described. McCall barely did anything and Lewis nailed him with some hard shots, while being carefull because McCall could be playing possum.

I think the fight is on Youtube, be sure to look it up. Lewis looks as sharp as ever.

Now Lewis vs Akinwande, that WAS disgusting indeed.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2007, 07:48 PM   #108
NickHudson
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 447
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

thanks for your response chris, i will be sure to revisit the fight on youtube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
They were during his prime, no two ways about it.
Lewis looked great against Ruddock, which was before losing to McCall.
And he looked great after losing to Rahman (in the rematch and against Tyson), so the only logical conclusion is that he was in his prime for both these fights.

Now i will add that he seemed to underestimated Rahman and had some unfixed flaws in his style against McCall, but it was still his prime.



Don't trust your memory if it's longer than 5 years ago. The memory has a way of changing the information. Sometimes exxagarating one event (in this case Lewis doing nothing and chasing McCall around), sometimes changing the event in such a way that you're more happy with it. Research has proven this. That's why i find it completly laughable when Fleischer says "well i've seen Jim Jeffries 20 years ago and he was faster than Dempsey/Tunney/whoever"... you can barely remember these things accurately enough over a few years to make such a judgement... over 5 years it is simply unreliable, especially when it comes to subjective matter like Boxing. I sometimes re-watch a fight that i haven't seen in one or two years and am suprised that the fight was quite different from what i remembered.


Anyway, about Lewis-McCall II. The first 3 rounds were genuine and Lewis showed great ability in it. He controlled McCall by keeping him on the outside with his jab and hit him with hard uppercuts on the inside. McCall tried to repeat his right hand but Lewis simply didn't allow him to. Also watch 2:00 or 1:00 minute left in round 3 (i forget which of the two), McCall lunges in and Lewis hits him with a beautiful, hard counter right hand, and momentarily staggers McCall.. which is the only time i've ever seen McCall stagger. Here is where McCall realised that he couldn't land on Lewis and had to pay for trying everytime by hard counter shots. He feared another long, painful night like against Bruno and broke down.

Round 4 & 5 are appartantly the only rounds which you remembered because those did go as you described. McCall barely did anything and Lewis nailed him with some hard shots, while being carefull because McCall could be playing possum.

I think the fight is on Youtube, be sure to look it up. Lewis looks as sharp as ever.

Now Lewis vs Akinwande, that WAS disgusting indeed.
NickHudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2007, 08:17 PM   #109
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
They were during his prime, no two ways about it.
Lewis looked great against Ruddock, which was before losing to McCall.
And he looked great after losing to Rahman (in the rematch and against Tyson), so the only logical conclusion is that he was in his prime for both these fights.

Now i will add that he seemed to underestimated Rahman and had some unfixed flaws in his style against McCall, but it was still his prime.



Don't trust your memory if it's longer than 5 years ago. The memory has a way of changing the information. Sometimes exxagarating one event (in this case Lewis doing nothing and chasing McCall around), sometimes changing the event in such a way that you're more happy with it. Research has proven this. That's why i find it completly laughable when Fleischer says "well i've seen Jim Jeffries 20 years ago and he was faster than Dempsey/Tunney/whoever"... you can barely remember these things accurately enough over a few years to make such a judgement... over 5 years it is simply unreliable, especially when it comes to subjective matter like Boxing. I sometimes re-watch a fight that i haven't seen in one or two years and am suprised that the fight was quite different from what i remembered.


Anyway, about Lewis-McCall II. The first 3 rounds were genuine and Lewis showed great ability in it. He controlled McCall by keeping him on the outside with his jab and hit him with hard uppercuts on the inside. McCall tried to repeat his right hand but Lewis simply didn't allow him to. Also watch 2:00 or 1:00 minute left in round 3 (i forget which of the two), McCall lunges in and Lewis hits him with a beautiful, hard counter right hand, and momentarily staggers McCall.. which is the only time i've ever seen McCall stagger. Here is where McCall realised that he couldn't land on Lewis and had to pay for trying everytime by hard counter shots. He feared another long, painful night like against Bruno and broke down.

Round 4 & 5 are appartantly the only rounds which you remembered because those did go as you described. McCall barely did anything and Lewis nailed him with some hard shots, while being carefull because McCall could be playing possum.

I think the fight is on Youtube, be sure to look it up. Lewis looks as sharp as ever.

Now Lewis vs Akinwande, that WAS disgusting indeed.
Akinwande was a complete disgrace to the human race. He was a terrified beanpole while the fight lasted. He had no interest in even trying to make a noise against Lewis. After viewing the fight it seems he was only looking to stop Lewis getting off with punches, and was not in the slightest bit concerned with his own work. Mills Lane gave him chances to fight effectively, but he choose to get DQ'd. Lewis was in there to box and fight, Akinwande on the otherhand was a wrestler during July 97.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2007, 08:29 PM   #110
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I would say from the moment he knocked Ruddock out untill he knocked Tyson out, in other words, from 1992 to 2002.
While he had quite some fundamental flaws pre-Steward and was somewhat slowed down against Tyson, i still count them as prime years.

I think he was at his peak during the second McCall fight.
I feel Lewis' prime was his fights with, Grant, Botha, Tua, Rahman, Rahman II, Tyson. 2000-2002. He became a complete seasoned fighter during that period. His boxing ability over 12 rounds was sublime against Tua, and his destructions against Botha and Grant showed his power and timing was as good as it ever was it any point in his career.

During the mid-late 90's he struggled with fighters such as Mercer, and he hardly looked on top of his game against Mavrovic.

Its amazing when you look at young athletic fighter during the early 90's, then once he got the rematch against McCall he was physically a different man.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2007, 09:57 PM   #111
Smokin'Joe
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Favorite Boxers: Frazier, Ali, Marciano, Archie Moore, Ray Leonard
Posts: 17
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Desperately try to knock him out? He had at least 3 full minutes to do that, and Liston couldn't land a single good clean punch on blind Clay? This is a lot more absurd (for anyone who knows what a wonderful fighter Liston was) than trying to persuade that that imitation of offense was real thing.
Yes desperatly try to knock him out, there's nothing more I can say really. You've done ntohing to prove me wrong on this.


Quote:
Why don't you tell about "that other crap" to Thomas Hearns and Gerald McClellan, neither of whom were originally known as big punchers? Even Earnie Shavers once said, that as he got older, it became more difficult to knock people out and so he actually was developing his punching skills, timing and accuracy, to keep his fearsome power.
How is this even relevant? We're talking about Foreman here. I said HE didn't need all that other stuff. I didn't say all that other stuff was pointless. Geesh man, READ.


Quote:
Ruddock. Golota. Briggs. Grant. Botha. Rahman II.
You wrattle these names of like they were actually good fighters. Foreman would have walked through everyone of those guys, and did it quicker than Lewis did. But there would have been no need for Foreman to face Rahman a second time


Quote:
Ali took the punches to the body exceptionally well, there's no doubt about it. But to the head, he took very few clean punches, where other guys showed much better accuracy than Foreman. Yet even those not very clean punches were enough to get Ali senseless two times with only the ropes saving him from being flattened.
You overexagerate everything. Ali was never freaking senseless at all during the fight. He might have taken a good shot, but he recovered, you can see Ali talking to Foreman after taking such said shots to get into his head. He was fine.


Quote:
I must have forgot how Jimmy Young applied constant pressure on Ali.
Ugh, ok? Didn't he lose to?


Quote:
These claims are so silly, I don't even know what to tell you. You gotta get more Lewis fights and watch them carefully, before ever claiming words like "never was". I'll spare you of public embarasment this time, but try to avoid making such mistakes in the future.
Ohh, you'll spare me public embarasment, kinda what you're going through now? Half your comments towards Ali are so unrescoured and dumb, you are making yourself look stupid. I admit, I'm not a Lewis fight expert, but I don't try to sound like one. You're making statements about Ali and bending truths, just for the sake of strengthing any argument you have.


Quote:
If so, then stop claiming Ali's power would be a factor here. In which fight did a slapper wear Lennox Lewis down and eventually stopped him?
If you could at all, comprehend what people are saying, instead of picking and choosing things to comment on, you'd see that's not at all what I was trying to get across. I was saying that Ali's combination of speed, agility, etc makes up for any lack of power he had. How can you argue this?


Quote:
Most of these KO's were against bums, plus several stoppages on cuts, where his slaps couldn't really hurt his opponents even once.
oh, and Liston's first 20 ko's were real championship calibre to. Most of his ko's over guys like Tony Tucker, who were as you said, bums, with just padded records.


Quote:
Lamar Clark has one of the most impressive KO records in history at some point. But anyone who thinks he could knock out ranked fighters just as easily, eventually found out it was a false assumption.
Ok, what's your point? you're continuing to argue on a pretty well dead issue. And your simply trying to bend logic. So now what? Tko stoppages dont count or somthing? Your again trying to make it sound as if we should discredit Ali because of his according to you weak punch. You can't win with you.


Quote:
Who was more fatigued at that point, Mercer (who has a better chin than Foreman) or Lewis?
Mercer had a tough chin, but he was decked by Holyfield who wasn't hitting him near as cleanly or often as he was an old ass Foreman. It was nowhere near as tough as Foremans.


Quote:
Glass-chinned Foster? That's a good one. Do you mind describing the other examples so we know they fit the conditions that were in my question? You may even name 1-3 punch KO wins against bums if that helps you.
I allready did. You've just once again showed you can't comprehend anything you read.


Quote:
Being able to wear an opponent down with tons of punches and then being able to finish them off, doesn't represent a hard hitter. Real hard hitters don't need many punches to knock the opponent down or out. Frazier's punching power was just average. Henry Armstrong and Harry Greb stopped many opponents also, with they constant pressure, but nobody calls them big punchers for some reason. Joe Frazier was no different than them.
Just average? lol. There is absolutly no winning with you. To attempt to argue that Frazier's power was just average, shows you don't have near as much knowledge of boxing as you claim. Jimmy Ellis had an AVERAGE punch. Micheal Moorer had and AVERAGE punch. You know nothing man. Frazier cracked ribs, busted kidneys, broke jaws, with single blows. You're complelety wrong.


Quote:
Ruddock, Golota, Grant are obvious examples. I could list several fights before he won the world title (against European level of opposition). That wouldn't help you, as Frazier doesn't have anything even against below World-level opposition.
Well, there's no accounting for taste. and you're right, Frazier doesn't have anything aginst below World level opp, cause after Mathis, he wasn't hardly fighting any.


Quote:
Foreman-Frazier 1? What are you talking about?
I was just using it as an example of ko right off the bat, where the other fighter wasn't worn down. what's there not to get?


Quote:
Mercer. Bruno. Briggs. Klitschko. Holyfield.
Bruno's a joke he still rattled Lewis' cage, Briggs is a big unbalanaced monster and he did the same, and Klitschko was on the verge of stopping Lewis. Mercer is an overated puncher, just because of what he did to Tommy Morrison people think he could really hit, but he always fell short against the next tier of contenders. Holyfield had phsical disadvantages, sort of like Mercer, and he was a solid volume puncher but not a powerful one. He had trouble even landing on lewis.


Quote:
He didn't make up for it to stop a glass-chinned Cooper or glass-chinned old injured Floyd Patterson. He couldn't even land any clean punches on 15-11-1 big and slow Duke Sabedong. He only narrowly outpointed Alonzo Johnson. He was lucky that Alex Miteff wasn't a big puncher, when he caught Clay with a right cross in the 2nd round. Sonny Banks punished him for overconfidence, dropping him with a long left hook. Billy Daniels had been ahead on points when the fight was stopped on cuts and Clay refused to give him a rematch, same as to Doug Jones a little later. Lavorante knocked the wind out of Clay with a couple of body shots, Clay grimaccing in pain and getting on a bicycle to avoid the troubles. He asked for a new Caddilac to get himself in the right mood for Doug Jones, and was doing silly predictions, but instead he blew it and got a boxing lesson (that right hand in the 1st round ought to teach him a lesson, but as it turned out in the next fight, it didn't) and barely escaped defeat (the referee in that bout was obviously a blind man though). They chose Henry Cooper next, who Clay called 'a tramp, a bum and a cripple'. Well that crippled bum put him on his own bum, so that he wasn't fully aware where he was and when the next round was going to be. Against, he was lucky that the fight was stopped on cuts, but not before Cooper got the first blood from Cassius' nostrils in the 1st round, so much for Clay's speed and agility.
Sure lets go back to Cooper and Jones you wont seem to forget about it. But you seem to totally forget about McCall and Rahman knocking the hell out of Lewis don't you?

Also you're compelelty underating Cooper who at the very LEAST was a champion and had a reputation as a puncher, that more than any of us can say about either McCall or Rahman befor ethe ko'd Lewis.

McCall and Rahman's rep as punchers are pretty well a direct result of knocking out Lewis. Further more Ali beat those other 2 fighters! Lewis lost. What's your comment on this?
Smokin'Joe is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2007, 10:59 PM   #112
Senya13
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Russia
Posts: 3,857
vCash: 1210
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

I see this is meaningless. Instead of answering to facts or giving out facts in the reasoning, he keeps saying 'so what' or says 'no, that ain't so' without giving a single fact to back it up. I'm not wasting my time any longer.
Senya13 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 05:40 AM   #113
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
I feel Lewis' prime was his fights with, Grant, Botha, Tua, Rahman, Rahman II, Tyson. 2000-2002. He became a complete seasoned fighter during that period. His boxing ability over 12 rounds was sublime against Tua, and his destructions against Botha and Grant showed his power and timing was as good as it ever was it any point in his career.

During the mid-late 90's he struggled with fighters such as Mercer, and he hardly looked on top of his game against Mavrovic.

Its amazing when you look at young athletic fighter during the early 90's, then once he got the rematch against McCall he was physically a different man.

Like i said before, i don't think he was at his peak during the Mercer fight, but i count it as his prime anyway.

About the Mavrovic fight, what was wrong there? Lewis lost one round in the entire fight; you can even argue he didn't lose a single round. The one time Mavrovic landed some good stuff, Lewis came back later in the round with hard combinations, which still made the round pretty much even, even though it was Mavrovic' best one.

Mavrovic has an iron chin and because of that he was able to go the distance, but he ate a tremendous amount of hard uppercuts. Basically it was a shutout win over a decent contender; just because Mavrovic went the distance doesn't mean that Lewis did bad or anything.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 09:30 AM   #114
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,269
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Cooper was known as an easy cutter. Ali couldn't knock out a fly that night with his slaps, to stop Cooper he needed either baseball bat or a gun.
Unfortunately, the facts say otherwise: Cooper couldn't continue because his face was a bleeding mess. Ali's fists made it that way. Ali stopped Cooper.

To stop Cooper, Ali turned those "slaps" around and sliced up Cooper's skin. Ali doesn't need to apologize because Cooper's prominent bone structure made him prone to cut.

Now got write it 400 times on the black board after school. "Ali stopped Cooper. Ali stopped Cooper. Ali stopped Cooper."
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 01:21 PM   #115
Longhhorn71
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,594
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Interesting comments above my boxing friends.

I don't know if anyone mentioned 6'6" WBA Ernie Terrell. And of course Ali
boxed rings around him.....and Ali was aggressive and came inside also in that fight.

To beat Ali you have to be "on a mission" like Frazier...and to some degree like Norton (when he had used a psychologist...and was not afraid or psyched by Ali).

Lewis of the Ruddock fight might have the psych to give Ali some issues.
The problem is Ali keeps his demeanor thru an entire fight and is hard to discourage.
Longhhorn71 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 01:52 PM   #116
quintonjacksonfan
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 327
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Lewis did not beat any great fighters in their prime for that reason I can't put

him any higher then nine or ten among the great heavyweights. Losing to

a few C level fighters doesn't help either.

The best fighters Lewis beat in their prime were mercer,Morrison,Ruddock,

and Tua. I will be generous and say they are B level fighters
quintonjacksonfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 02:16 PM   #117
Doppleganger
Il Genio
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 764
vCash: 800
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by quintonjacksonfan
Losing to a few C level fighters doesn't help either.
Well he lost to two fighters. Using the word 'few' makes it appear worse than what it is.
Doppleganger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 02:18 PM   #118
Senya13
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Russia
Posts: 3,857
vCash: 1210
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Unfortunately, the facts say otherwise: Cooper couldn't continue because his face was a bleeding mess. Ali's fists made it that way. Ali stopped Cooper.

To stop Cooper, Ali turned those "slaps" around and sliced up Cooper's skin. Ali doesn't need to apologize because Cooper's prominent bone structure made him prone to cut.
If you can't see the connection between two parts of the same statement...
Quote:
Ali couldn't knock out a fly that night with his slaps, to stop Cooper he needed either baseball bat or a gun.
In this case "stop" = "knock out".
Senya13 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 02:20 PM   #119
Senya13
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Russia
Posts: 3,857
vCash: 1210
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Well he lost to two fighters. Using the word 'few' makes it appear worse than what it is.
He also forgot to mention that Clay/Ali struggled in fights with a LOT of D, E and F fighters.
Senya13 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 03:32 PM   #120
groove
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,028
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

but he never struggled against A fighters like Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson or against B fighters like Quarry, Terrell, Ellis etc. Cooper was not a D fighter so who the **** were E and F fighters? Cooper is a better heavy than Don ****ell anyway and not FAT LOL. Cooper may have beaten Rocky. After the Rocky fight ****ell said, "I would like to fight Marciano again any place any time. He's not the hardest hitting man I ever fought. He just hits more often."
groove is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013