Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

[Senya13]

I laid out facts, listing over a dozen fights and describing the details to pay attention to. Ali defenders had nothing to say about them, other than concentrate on two Lewis losses time and time again.

[Smokin'Joe]

Originally Posted by Senya13

I laid out facts, listing over a dozen fights and describing the details to pay attention to. Ali defenders had nothing to say about them, other than concentrate on two Lewis losses time and time again.

I expected somthin like that. Guys like you dont' know when they've lost.

[NickHudson]

Hey Senya,

I have re-read your lengthy earlier post, and there is no doubt you have watched and analysed a lot of boxing. It is full of detail and contains many grains of truth.

However, I believe the reason your arguments don't wash with much of the ESB forum, and that you have created so much debate, is that you dont apply the same stringent criticisms to Lewis as you do to Ali.

In short your recent posts have been terribly one-sided in manner and tone. Your posts give the impression (and the impression may be wrong) that you don't like Ali as a man, and you really desperately wish that Lewis (or at least someone) would have beaten him in a fight, whether or not logic suggests this is the case.

Support for this conclusion is based on an earlier thread where you argued the patently absurd notion that prime RJJ would have beaten prime Ali.

If you applied the same destructive tone to RJJ (e.g. he was rubbish and it was just a matter of time before he got exposed by KO) or Lewis (e.g. he was rubbish and could be KOd by a single shot from a glrofied sparring partner while in his prime) as you did to Ali I believe your opinions would balance out a little.

Originally Posted by Senya13

I laid out facts, listing over a dozen fights and describing the details to pay attention to. Ali defenders had nothing to say about them, other than concentrate on two Lewis losses time and time again.

[Senya13]

Of course I don't like Ali. I hate him so much that I have him #2 in my all-time heavyweight ratings. Not at #1, that's how far my hate for him goes. Not having Ali at #1 and criticizing him for his flaws is a major sin with some people (I don't mean you).
The reason why I argueing like that is because there are hundreds of people out there, who don't know when to stop in their love for Ali. They describe him as some kind of ideal boxer, who in his prime never had any troubles with any boxer. Who outsmarted everyone he faced. Who never lost a round in his prime, never struggled with any styles. And even if he did, they will keep repeating that it only matters who got his hand lifted as the winner.
As you said, it is "terribly one-sided in manner and tone" and gives "the impression (and the impression may be wrong)" that Ali is some kind of God, who, while in his best shape, could lose to nobody.

you dont apply the same stringent criticisms to Lewis as you do to Ali

See, it's like I said, instead of admitting Ali's flaws and admitting that he experienced troubles in the ring not only when he was old, but when he was young and was fighting inferior opposition, you prefer to concentrate on other fighters instead, and would rather put them down worse than I did Ali, than admit the above things. Although, such thing happens not just with Ali, but with pretty much any other fighter that gets discussed here.

[C. M. Clay II]

Lewis' size means nothing. Ali ate up huge heavyweights. Liston, Foreman, Williams, Lewis, Wepner, Terrel, etc says it all. It's the small, volume punchers who gave him trouble (Frazier, Spinks, Chuvalo, etc.)Lewis loses by wide UD. He couldn't handle Ray Mercer's jab, so how is he gonna handle Ali's? Lewis may even lose my a late stoppage due to accumilation. Ali would hit him at will and dart in and out of range. Plus Lewis never fought a 15 rounder before.

Muhammad Ali TKO 14 Lennox Lewis

[groove]

Norton was Ali's achilles heel. You know why? Because he was always looking to counter attack Ali. Ali was a counter attacker himself so he liked his opponents to come forward and show him the way. Norton didn't play that game. They cancelled each other out a lot of the time in their fights and therefore the reason they were not so great action wise like the Frazier battles and were very close fights.

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by Senya13

If you can't see the connection between two parts of the same statement...

In this case "stop" = "knock out".

Senya, you strain gnats and swallow camels. Whether or not Ali knocked Cooper unconscious or sliced his face to ribbons is incidental. Cooper was stopped. Twice by Ali. The records show Cooper posting 2 of the 37 "KO" victims of Ali.

[Joe E]

This is'nt a good match up for Ali.The way to beat Ali was to be patient and wait for him.You also would need a good left jab and would have to use it frequently.Lennox could do this,his carefull style of counter punching combined with his patience and very good right would give Ali fits.In a 12 rounder Lennox stands a very good chance of beating Ali.In a 15 rounder I say Ali wins a close decision.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Who, and please, please, please, why?

A their very best, I'll go with Ali via close decsion. Anything outside of their best nights, Lewis wins by decison or knockout.

Ali wins it.

Because he's so damn fast and Lewis would do nothing much than eat his jab all night, probably get cut up and possibly KO'd or TKO'd late.
Ali makes Lewis look ordinary from start to finish.

And before anyone starts, I also think a peak Ali would pot shot the shit out of my favourite Holyfield.

[Black Eyes To You]

Ali would KO Lewis in the late rounds. Why? Because Lewis is a slower, less polished version of Larry Holmes without his speed and jab. He also has a less than stellar chin to cover from the likes of ALI? Get real.

[ripcity]

Lewis uses his 4 inch reach advantage and wins by decision.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Black Eyes To You

Ali would KO Lewis in the late rounds. Why? Because Lewis is a slower, less polished version of Larry Holmes without his speed and jab. He also has a less than stellar chin to cover from the likes of ALI? Get real.

Lewis is also a much stronger, heavier-handed fighter than Holmes with a pulverizing rather than stinging jab.

LL UD Ali

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Who, and please, please, please, why?

Lewis is well coordinated for a big man but he would be facing the most agile of the Heavies in Ali,Ali wins this with superior movement and greater speed Lewis,s footwork would look clumsy in contrast to alis ,s fleetness,I can even see Ali dropping Lewis as he overreaches with his punches ,ala Foreman.

[Joe E]

Ali would do the same to Lewis that he did to Williams,Terrel,and Ellis.A prime Lewis would never catch a prime Ali.Thanks.