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Old 12-04-2007, 03:44 PM   #31
C. M. Clay II
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Ali can't even walk on soft grass nowadays.
I bet you're patting yourself on the back for that one, huh?
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Ali lost to a 1 arm, 1 eye, blind fighter.

Ali lost to Lord Nelson too did he?
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:47 PM   #33
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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I bet you're patting yourself on the back for that one, huh?

No, I don't want to take that hand off my nuts.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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OK, just be quiet while you have some dignity left. Frazier was half blind in one eye, so he could still see some things from that eye. Second, where do you get this information that Frazier was one-armed? He had two arms doofus. Never have I seen a Frazier fight and seen a man with one limb, he had two arms on his body and he used both arms. He may have used the left more, but he had a right hand on his body and he used it plenty. Quit posting these biased replies.
I not biased, You know pretty well what I mean in regards too 1 arm, The left hook. Fraizer's right hand was more of a carried tool. If he landed it, it was a swat. But with that left hook, if Frazier landed it, it was a BOOM. All Fraizer relie on in the Ali fight was the left, And Ali show pretty poor defense if he cant avoid 1 punch.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:04 PM   #35
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
I not biased, You know pretty well what I mean in regards too 1 arm, The left hook. Fraizer's right hand was more of a carried tool. If he landed it, it was a swat. But with that left hook, if Frazier landed it, it was a BOOM. All Fraizer relie on in the Ali fight was the left, And Ali show pretty poor defense if he cant avoid 1 punch.
A swat? It wasn't as good as his left, but it was far from a "swat".

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
And Ali show pretty poor defense if he cant avoid 1 punch.
Or did Ali just show ring-rust and decrease of footspeed?
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:05 PM   #36
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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No, I don't want to take that hand off my nuts.
OK, too much information.
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Old 12-04-2007, 04:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Why not?
Why have you not read the thread?
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

Yeah, it's quite well documented that Frazier suffered high blood pressure going into the fight and that he had eyesight issues all through his career.

It was only after the Ali fight where these things really made a difference to his performances though.
And when his face swelled and his eye problems became more acute he really was a sitting duck. I dont think he was fit enough to justify being passed to fight in Manila, by today's ethical standards in high profile matches.
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Old 12-04-2007, 07:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Originally Posted by Thad Spencer
As Kurgan said, Frazier was dealing with health problems. But those excuses never come up. It's always, "imagine if Ali had not had 3 years off where he was allowed to train and spar but chose to be lazy".

Imagine if Frazier had better eyesight, and was healthier? I always thought that FOTC should not have been as close as it was. Frazier had a real off night.
I've always thought Joe had a off night, too, in the FOTC. If he was on, he would have finished Ali in 10 or 11.

Joe's physical peak was most likely the Ellis fight.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:13 AM   #40
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

yeah and Ali's peak was 4 years prior to this fight. So he fought very well against a great fighter. Remember what Marciano said" "this kid is unorthodox but he will also be unbeatable. Nobody will be able to defeat him except he himself... and that will only be if he gets OUT OF SHAPE or REMAINS INACTIVE or non-serious in training."
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Ali can't even walk on soft grass nowadays.
Now that we're at it. Does anybody know Ali's current state. I always believed that he would be one of the first to be treated successfully for Parkinsons. At 65, I think from a medical standpoint, he still stands a fair chance of recovery if they find a cure for Parkinsons ``tomorrow´´? Keep on fighting Ali!!!!
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:34 PM   #42
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Well, when people say that Ali wasn't in his prime when he fought Frazier (which he wasn't), the haters get mad so they come up with all kinds of BS to make Ali's layoff insignificant i.e. Frazier was past it against Ali even though nothing in or out of the ring occured that would make it possible.
Frazier's fighting peak IMO was from 1967-1970. His blood pressure and vision problems were known from his fight with Doug Jones. He wasn't at his very best mentally and physically against Ali the first time but he was pretty close to it. Mentally, Ali almost made Frazier a one armed fighter in the FOTC because he had Frazier really bothered by all of his insults hoping to make him as mad as possible. This is a prime example of defining Ali's genius. He did everything he could to get Frazier off his game because he found out that Frazier was no slouch during the George Karlinsky publicity photos similating the two fighters. Rumour has it, that they almost went at it that afternoon and were trading some shots that weren't pittypat. In the fight itself, all night long Frazier tried to knock Ali out with his left hook and was only able to knock him down in the fifteenth round. Watch Frazier box Ellis, Quarry and Machen before this fight with Ali. Frazier used more hooks and leads with his right hand in those fights but no where near as much against Ali. People argue that Ali was past his prime against Frazier in the FOTC. I disagree. Ali hit a lot harder than the 1964-1967 version and was a smarter fighter in the second part of his career. He might have been faster in his early career but he wasn't as far past his prime as many suggest. It's too bad that Ali-Frazier didn't happen early than 1971 because that fight would have been a thing of beauty to watch.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:36 PM   #43
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Originally Posted by round15
Frazier's fighting peak IMO was from 1967-1970. His blood pressure and vision problems were known from his fight with Doug Jones. He wasn't at his very best mentally and physically against Ali the first time but he was pretty close to it. Mentally, Ali almost made Frazier a one armed fighter in the FOTC because he had Frazier really bothered by all of his insults hoping to make him as mad as possible. This is a prime example of defining Ali's genius. He did everything he could to get Frazier off his game because he found out that Frazier was no slouch during the George Karlinsky publicity photos similating the two fighters. Rumour has it, that they almost went at it that afternoon and were trading some shots that weren't pittypat. In the fight itself, all night long Frazier tried to knock Ali out with his left hook and was only able to knock him down in the fifteenth round. Watch Frazier box Ellis, Quarry and Machen before this fight with Ali. Frazier used more hooks and leads with his right hand in those fights but no where near as much against Ali. People argue that Ali was past his prime against Frazier in the FOTC. I disagree. Ali hit a lot harder than the 1964-1967 version and was a smarter fighter in the second part of his career. He might have been faster in his early career but he wasn't as far past his prime as many suggest. It's too bad that Ali-Frazier didn't happen early than 1971 because that fight would have been a thing of beauty to watch.
All around perceptive post.

Someone who understands Ali's real peak came in Part II of his career.

p.s. George Chuvalo would most likely agree that Smokin' Joe started peaking as early as '67.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Ali can't even walk on soft grass nowadays.

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Old 12-07-2007, 06:56 PM   #45
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Default Re: Joe Frazier - Jerry Quarry - Muhammed Ali

Quarry was a heck of a fighter but it was easier to look spectacular against him than Ali. Joe was at his absolute best in March 1971. He took a lot of punishment in that fight and wound up hospitalized for about a week after the fight.

Joe continued to be excellent in subsequent fights but it is my view, he was at his peak in March 1971.
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