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Old 12-07-2007, 04:15 PM   #61
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
An interesting point about Bob Fitzsimmons, is that he was a blacksmith by trade. Some say that he developed a lot of strenght in his shoulders, which may have aided him in the ring.
A lot of old timers developed their power doing manual labour.

Tom Sayers had a job throwing bricks and always atributed his power to it. Joe Louis carried 100lbs or so of ice up several flights of stairs. Earnie Shavers atributed his power to choping wood and carrying logs.

I have lifted weights for some years now but there is a certain quality to the strength of a manual labourer that you cant develop in the gym.
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:25 PM   #62
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by janitor
I have lifted weights for some years now but there is a certain quality to the strength of a manual labourer that you cant develop in the gym.
Yeah, there's a definate differennce between functional strength and the kind that is acquired in a controlled environment such as a gym. I did quite a bit of manual labor when I was in my teens and 20's. Now I go to the gym after sitting in the office all day.
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:17 PM   #63
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Really? I'm not so sure about that...I struggled to get 20 actually.
I'd go into the great light heavies after the 40 too

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Old 12-07-2007, 05:27 PM   #64
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I'd go into the great light heavies after the 40 too

Can you find 20 heavyweights who acomplished more than Fitzsimmons in their era?

Remember head to head is fantasy while resume is fact.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:28 PM   #65
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by janitor
Not only am I convinced that Fitzsimmons was the best finisher of his era but I will go further and say that Joe Choynski was second only to Fitzsimmons in this regard.
Why? Choynsky had Fitz, Maher, McCoy, Goddard and Corbett in some, or in most cases, serious trouble with his tremendous punch but lost all of these fights.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:27 PM   #66
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Why? Choynsky had Fitz, Maher, McCoy, Goddard and Corbett in some, or in most cases, serious trouble with his tremendous punch but lost all of these fights.
Choynski could dish it out like Fitz but he couldnt take it like Fitz. That was the factior limiting his sucess. Incidentaly he probably should have got a knockout win over Godard who was saved by a long count.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:30 PM   #67
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

Well fitz couldnt take it very much himself either, his goosneck didnt exactly provide good padding.


I think Joe Choynski hit just as hard as fitz. maybe harder. johnson fought both choynski and fitz, and claimed choynski hit harder.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:33 PM   #68
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

[quote]
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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Well fitz couldnt take it very much himself either, his goosneck didnt exactly provide good padding.
He either had good durability or helishly good defence. Put it that way.

Quote:
I think Joe Choynski hit just as hard as fitz. maybe harder. johnson fought both choynski and fitz, and claimed choynski hit harder.
More than one common oponent said that Choynski was the hardest puncher they ever faced.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #69
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

I think it's fair to say that Fitzsimmons was the hardest punching MW ever. At HW though it's hard for me to put him in the top 20. I base this essentially on size.

I don't pay too much attention to people who say his guard was too low. I mean 30 mins in a contemporary gym and the low gaurd isn't working then I'm pretty sure Fitzsimmons would have a new gaurd/stance... You don't have to be a genius to work that out.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:51 PM   #70
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by Ezzard
I think it's fair to say that Fitzsimmons was the hardest punching MW ever. At HW though it's hard for me to put him in the top 20. I base this essentially on size.
His size is of course the main barrier to him being ranked highly by many people.

If you were to overlook his size and just asess his record then the case can be made. A lot of people on this forum consider Sam Langford to be a top 20 all time heavyweight so is it that much of a stretch to suggest that Fitz could be?
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:02 PM   #71
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

Janitor,

don't u think that it's hard to say that without good quality film?
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:07 PM   #72
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

Sam Langford knocked out harry wills and beat sam mcvea, Joe Jeannete Janitor. these are big skilled powerful heavyweights, type of guys that fitz never beat.

the only true fights we can judge fitz on against a ATG heavy, he was knocked out twice by jeffries.

In the only fight we can judge him against a top boxer, he was badly outboxed and knocked down and given a long count against corbett(cause he grabbed on too corbett)

Fitz appears to fight with too much bareknuckle era style, and not enough modernized boxing style(like langford).


Sam also filled out to around 180-190lb of sheer muscle

fitz averaged weighing around 165lb for all his heavyweight fights
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by janitor
Choynski could dish it out like Fitz but he couldnt take it like Fitz. That was the factior limiting his sucess. Incidentaly he probably should have got a knockout win over Godard who was saved by a long count.
I think(as many at the time did, including Jeff) that Joe hit as hard as Bob but he didnt prove as good a FINISHER. Fitz was much more than a puncher, indeed on this thread overated as a puncher, but he was an extremely cute and calculating as well as tough. Also Maher, Sharkey, Ruhlin, Corbett, Hall and Choynski were good HW contenders, on a rough par with Langfords opponents-and Fitz lost a lot less.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:01 PM   #74
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Also Maher, Sharkey, Ruhlin, Corbett, Hall and Choynski were good HW contenders, on a rough par with Langfords opponents-and Fitz lost a lot less.

I disagree, most of these guys were overhyped unskilled white fighters who avoided the best black fighters of their generation because they werent good enough to beat them. for example denver ed martin was ruhlins sparring partner in jeffries-ruhlin title fight, but on film it showed denver ed martin toying with and manhandiling ruhlin around the ring.

langford beat much tough comp
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Old 12-08-2007, 06:37 PM   #75
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons is to this day a top 20 all time heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
I disagree, most of these guys were overhyped unskilled white fighters who avoided the best black fighters of their generation because they werent good enough to beat them.
I think that some of the best black contenders of the day like Martin could certainly have got onto the same level as these guys but I dont think they would have established themselves as a teir above.

These are solid wins.
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