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Old 07-05-2011, 04:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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If you can find a more definite source for the result of the 1902-03-07 bout with Jack Ryan, we may end up at 100 KO's. I have several conflicting reports, NC3, W-TKO3, W-TKO4, W-TKO5. I have kept the NC3 on his record so far, until it is resolved.
I looked it up. Both the Philadelphia Record and the Baltimore American have it as a TKO for Gans, they just disagree on the round (3 and 5 respectively). I think listing it as a "TKO" but leaving the round blank would be the proper thing. What do you think?
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

Three Baltimore papers had an identical report (all marked "special for", how funny), referee stopping it in the 3rd. NY Evening World had the referee declaring it a no contest in the 3rd round. Phila Record, like you said, had it TKO in 5th round. Pittsburg Press on Mar 9 had it TKO after 1 minute of the 4th round. I'd like a more local confirmation before changing it. What's on newspaperarchive if you have access? Maybe they have a newspaper from nearby town, like Bethlehem or Easton?
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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Three Baltimore papers had an identical report (all marked "special for", how funny), referee stopping it in the 3rd. NY Evening World had the referee declaring it a no contest in the 3rd round. Phila Record, like you said, had it TKO in 5th round. Pittsburg Press on Mar 9 had it TKO after 1 minute of the 4th round. I'd like a more local confirmation before changing it. What's on newspaperarchive if you have access? Maybe they have a newspaper from nearby town, like Bethlehem or Easton?
I checked there and Chronicling America (Library of Congress) and found nothing. I'm going to call the Allentown Public Library tomorrow and see if they will check the local newspapers for that period. That should confirm it beyond a doubt.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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Just found 4 new bouts that took place in late May 1902. Brings his total of knockouts to 99. Pray that I can find one more to push him to the magic 100 KO category:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Very cool. Where did you find them?
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

I added another bout, so it's at KO100 right now, but I will need to change another bout from KO to a decision victory (two next day reports disagreed, so I had to find a 3rd one) and end up at KO99 again.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:37 PM   #21
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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I added another bout, so it's at KO100 right now, but I will need to change another bout from KO to a decision victory (two next day reports disagreed, so I had to find a 3rd one) and end up at KO99 again.
The Allentown PL is sending me the results of the Ryan fight, so we may be back up to 100 again shortly.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

It's official. The Allentown Morning Call states a TKO in the 4th. Gans now has 100 knockouts
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

I thought the pros versus anyone willing to fight were discredited. otherwise john l. sullivan's tours would have given him a dozen more documented title defenses.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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I thought the pros versus anyone willing to fight were discredited. otherwise john l. sullivan's tours would have given him a dozen more documented title defenses.
If these were joes off the street, then yes. As it stands they were professional fighters who were fighting for a purse. Is that not the definition of a "prizefight"?
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:35 PM   #25
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Were they billed as exhibition bouts? Was it part of a theatrical tour? Were the durations of the rounds and/or fights shorter than the norm? Were the gloves used larger than standard gloves of the time? etc etc. If any of these can be answered yes or several then it probably shouldnt count. For years and years professional boxers have fought and been paid for exhibition bouts, and often took them very seriously going for the kill, but they still should not be counted as anything but exhibition bouts. Some of Greb's exhibition bouts have on occasion filtered in and out of his record, as well as Dempsey, and in the past even Joe Louis. But, simply being paid, or two fighters going hammer and tongs in an exhibition, should not dictate whether it was a recorded/sanctioned professional bout. Ive even seen some people, on occasion, try to add street fights of early fighters into their professional records. I dont agree with this either.

Ive seen people argue that several of Jack Dempsey's exhibition KOs should count toward his record. They should not. Ive seen people argue that several of Louis' exhibition KOs should count to his official tally. They should not (and Louis was usually fighting ranked professionals and very often hurting or stopping them). Ive even seen people including Luckett Davis argue that Harry Greb's exhibition with Kid Lewis (not TKL) should be part of his record for no other reason than Greb scored a KO. It should not.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

Great find gents!

Does this increase the legend of gans?

Have you been able to nail down how many defences he made?
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:03 AM   #27
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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The Allentown Morning Call states a TKO in the 4th.
Got a clipping? Can you share it with me?
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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Were they billed as exhibition bouts? Was it part of a theatrical tour? Were the durations of the rounds and/or fights shorter than the norm? Were the gloves used larger than standard gloves of the time?
Those fights were not billed as exhibitions, only his sparring with Herman Miller was. Short "meet all comers" tour, not theatrical. Normal duration, 3 minutes, Queensberry rules. No mention of special gloves being used in three local newspapers.
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Old 07-19-2011, 05:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

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Got a clipping? Can you share it with me?
I emailed it to you. It won't let me post it here.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: Discovered: Four New Joe Gans Fights

I got them. Thanks a lot!
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