Which fighters sub-190 pounds could beat Riddick Bowe ?

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

I fully agree. Too much time is spent on watching Boxrec instead of the actual fights around here.

Oh, didn't you know. Bowe's emphatic victory against an excellent fighter in which he threw something like 700-750 punches only becomes good if it happened in the 1930s and wasn't filmed.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

How was it a dumb fight tactically for Bowe and what was exposed concerning him? He fought the perfect fight, I'd say.

Anyone can pick holes in Bowe's defence that night, but the man tasted Evander's power and was comfortable trading with him, whether at long, mid or close range- and clearly got the better of most of the exchanges. One of the best 'i'm leaving as the champ' heavyweight victories for a good while (although, as a 'Deal' fan it pissed me off at the time).

[Vantage_West]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr8yAKFbXg4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr8yAKFbXg4[/ame]
imamu mayfield

alfred ice cole

king arthur williams

[Swarmer]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

How was it a dumb fight tactically for Bowe and what was exposed concerning him? He fought the perfect fight, I'd say.

Because he's huge and he let Holyfield engage up close.

[bodhi]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

It was a great heavyweight fight between two superb heavyweights.
Perhaps Holyfield fought a bit dumb, he hadn't accounted for Bowe's heart and stamina.

I don't think was any "dumber", tactically or strategically, or exposed more holes, than the fights of Ali-Frazier-Foreman.

So, it´s not dumb for a smaller fighter not to use his speed and mobility advantage but instead deciding to brawl with a bigger opponent?. It´s not dumb to brawl when you´ve got holes in your defence as big as the ones in the ozon layer and a chin which some question marks on it instead of using our size advantage to keep your opponent out of reach?

Originally Posted by Bokaj

How was it a dumb fight tactically for Bowe and what was exposed concerning him? He fought the perfect fight, I'd say.

See above, he should have used his size advantages more, you know the thing Lewis, Wlad and Vitali actually are good at. He fought a very good fight but his tactics weren´t.

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Oh, didn't you know. Bowe's emphatic victory against an excellent fighter in which he threw something like 700-750 punches only becomes good if it happened in the 1930s and wasn't filmed.

Ah, yeah, the good ol´faveoritism of older fighters "argument".

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Anyone can pick holes in Bowe's defence that night, but the man tasted Evander's power and was comfortable trading with him, whether at long, mid or close range- and clearly got the better of most of the exchanges. One of the best 'i'm leaving as the champ' heavyweight victories for a good while (although, as a 'Deal' fan it pissed me off at the time).

What´s so remarkable about deciding to trade shots with a guy who never was a big puncher and you have a size and strength advantage over? The only reason Bowe won most of the exchanges was because Holy fought a dumb fight.

That win is like Bowe. Very good rather than great.

[Swarmer]

holyfield's fight was way smarter. i wouldn't say he was brawling per se-i consider it one of the best displays of hw infighting past Frazier.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

I fully agree. Too much time is spent on watching Boxrec instead of the actual fights around here.

I've never seen any of these Holyfield-Bowe fights. Are they worth watching?

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Swarmer

Because he's huge and he let Holyfield engage up close.

But he was winning up close and losing at distance. That's why it was a good move for him and a bad one for Holy to make it a brawl. His combination of skill and size always made that his fight.

[Swarmer]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I've never seen any of these Holyfield-Bowe fights. Are they worth watching?

I wouldn't know, i'm a 21 year old that refuses to watch boxing in color.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by bodhi

See above, he should have used his size advantages more, you know the thing Lewis, Wlad and Vitali actually are good at. He fought a very good fight but his tactics weren´t.

He used it very well to wear Holy down. If you're bigger, stronger and punch harder than your opponent but are almost equally skilled at fighting in the pocket, you'd want to fight exactly how Bow did in that fight.

Anyone who has fought at close range while giving up almost 30 lbs to the guys he's fighting know how extremely tiring that is.

[Swarmer]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

But he was winning up close and losing at distance. That's why it was a good move for him and a bad one for Holy to make it a brawl. His combination of skill and size always made that his fight.

I agree. My contention is that Bowe should have made adjustments to his range game instead of sacrificing his natural physical strengths. But, I guess that was never going to be his style.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I've never seen any of these Holyfield-Bowe fights. Are they worth watching?

Nah. Stick to pointless, sly remarks. You're probably better at that.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Swarmer

I agree. My contention is that Bowe should have made adjustments to his range game instead of sacrificing his natural physical strengths. But, I guess that was never going to be his style.

Bowe wasn't the best at fighting at range. But he was abnormally good at fighting in the pocket for a guy his size. His lack of a really good defense was always going to make his career relatively short, but he was very good at what he was doing.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Swarmer

holyfield's fight was way smarter. i wouldn't say he was brawling per se-i consider it one of the best displays of hw infighting past Frazier.

In terms of skill, yes. In terms of effectiveness, no. He was just never going to beat Bowe where Bowe was at his most comfortable.

Bowe owned the first tactically IMO. In the second Holy adapted well, to his credit.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by bodhi

So, it´s not dumb for a smaller fighter not to use his speed and mobility advantage but instead deciding to brawl with a bigger opponent?. It´s not dumb to brawl when you´ve got holes in your defence as big as the ones in the ozon layer and a chin which some question marks on it instead of using our size advantage to keep your opponent out of reach?

I said Holyfield fought a bit dumb, we can all see that, but it was understandable because the knock on Bowe was that he had suspect stamina and a suspect heart and Holyfield thought he'd wear him down.

Bowe was a superior infighter, so why is it dumb to let the fight occur on the inside ?

Last time I checked, Ali took way too many shots from Frazier at least 2/3 of their fights, Frazier walked straight into Foreman in kamikaze style ..... and Foreman punched himself out with utmost stupidity against Ali, whose strategy entailed taking ridiculous amounts of punishment.
And God knows what Floyd Patterson was thinking against Liston - twice.
By those standards, I'd say Holyfield and Bowe fought quite smart.