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Old 07-19-2011, 06:48 PM   #16
tommygun711
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If the number of rounds in these fights changes, then the fighters involved would fight them completely differently.

It is frankly futile to speculate.
this is just for fun janitor goddamn of course the fighters would prepare differently
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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If the number of rounds in these fights changes, then the fighters involved would fight them completely differently.

It is frankly futile to speculate.
Hagler seemed to fight 12 rounders at the same pace he fought matches over the championship distance while on top. Against SRL it was fatal, while having his defense against Duran being for the championship distance made the difference between losing and retaining his crown.

The first two matches I always cite might come as a surprise for anybody who knows my fanatical devotion to the vastly proved superiority of the championship distance over the 12 round limit, but I start off with Jeffries-Corbett I and Johnson-Willard. Corbett would have become the first man to regain the HW Title, while Lil' Artha's best rounds in Havana were the 14th and 15th, after which the tide turned. Beyond 15 rounds, matches can turn into endurance contests, where the inferior boxer can win. Corbett actually would have regained the title after 20 rounds, and did come within seven minutes of succeeding in actuality. Johnson would have successfully retained it in a 25 rounder, but 45 rounds in that heat and humidity made for what was essentially a fight to the finish, specifically everything Willard had trained and planned for.

Chacon got himself coronated for the final time in the very last WBC Title fight scheduled for the championship distance, by scoring the difference making knockdown in the closing seconds. On August 4, 1988, in what Wikipedia currently records as boxing's last title fight over the championship distance, Jorge Paez, training on all three cards after 14 rounds, scored three final round knockdowns to win the IBF FW honors.

Edwina Rosario first became a titleholder exclusively because despotic WBC POS camel toed dictatorial Jose "PMS Hissyfit Puta" ****suckamain abolished the championship distance in the defense of the rights of pink glove, lipstick and crotchless thong skirt wearing perfumed *****faggots with strap-ons. Jose Ramirez clearly would have won over the championship distance, but at least he wiped out Rosario in the rematch. Watching Ramirez-Rosario I after seeing Chacon-Limon IV turned me strongly against boxing, and SRL-Hagler clinched my eventual departure from fandom of the sport, although it still took a little time for lingering elements of interest to fully dissipate. The modern racket interests me about as much as cricket, roller derby, lesbian tennis and synchronized swimming, although one doesn't forget what was previously learned, hence my presence here. You want a long time fan who actually gives a crap about current boxing, talk to Burt. (Restoring the championship distance would not bring me back now. Too much time has elapsed, too much history lost, and the link is permanently, irrevocably severed for me. The required continuity and connection is gone, finally amputated by the holdout IBF's capitulation.)
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:13 AM   #18
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

Chavez-taylor i chavez wins via 13th rd tko. No controversy at all.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:18 AM   #19
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

Leonard/Hearns 1 almost certainly. Leonard doesn't beat Hearns over 12.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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Chavez-taylor i chavez wins via 13th rd tko. No controversy at all.
There would be no fuss (The referee doing his job, is not controversial in my book, he is not the timekeeper); if the result was TKO12 in a 15 rounder...
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:47 AM   #21
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

Can't remember how the rounds stood at the time but I'd say possibly Walcott-Marciano I - and maybe Walcott-Louis I as well even? - Things could've been a lot different for old Walcott - I think he beat Louis anyway in their first fight so in theory he could be viewed as the first man to regain the title as well - great great fighter Walcott
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:55 AM   #22
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
Hagler seemed to fight 12 rounders at the same pace he fought matches over the championship distance while on top. Against SRL it was fatal, while having his defense against Duran being for the championship distance made the difference between losing and retaining his crown.

The first two matches I always cite might come as a surprise for anybody who knows my fanatical devotion to the vastly proved superiority of the championship distance over the 12 round limit, but I start off with Jeffries-Corbett I and Johnson-Willard. Corbett would have become the first man to regain the HW Title, while Lil' Artha's best rounds in Havana were the 14th and 15th, after which the tide turned. Beyond 15 rounds, matches can turn into endurance contests, where the inferior boxer can win. Corbett actually would have regained the title after 20 rounds, and did come within seven minutes of succeeding in actuality. Johnson would have successfully retained it in a 25 rounder, but 45 rounds in that heat and humidity made for what was essentially a fight to the finish, specifically everything Willard had trained and planned for.

Chacon got himself coronated for the final time in the very last WBC Title fight scheduled for the championship distance, by scoring the difference making knockdown in the closing seconds. On August 4, 1988, in what Wikipedia currently records as boxing's last title fight over the championship distance, Jorge Paez, training on all three cards after 14 rounds, scored three final round knockdowns to win the IBF FW honors.

Edwina Rosario first became a titleholder exclusively because despotic WBC POS camel toed dictatorial Jose "PMS Hissyfit Puta" ****suckamain abolished the championship distance in the defense of the rights of pink glove, lipstick and crotchless thong skirt wearing perfumed *****faggots with strap-ons. Jose Ramirez clearly would have won over the championship distance, but at least he wiped out Rosario in the rematch. Watching Ramirez-Rosario I after seeing Chacon-Limon IV turned me strongly against boxing, and SRL-Hagler clinched my eventual departure from fandom of the sport, although it still took a little time for lingering elements of interest to fully dissipate. The modern racket interests me about as much as cricket, roller derby, lesbian tennis and synchronized swimming, although one doesn't forget what was previously learned, hence my presence here. You want a long time fan who actually gives a crap about current boxing, talk to Burt. (Restoring the championship distance would not bring me back now. Too much time has elapsed, too much history lost, and the link is permanently, irrevocably severed for me. The required continuity and connection is gone, finally amputated by the holdout IBF's capitulation.)
Nice post ..
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:56 AM   #23
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

Both Dempsey - Tunney fights ... Gene would have stopped him twice if they were 15 rounders and the Dempsey legend would have been severely tarnished ...
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:02 AM   #24
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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Leonard/Hearns 1 almost certainly. Leonard doesn't beat Hearns over 12.
And Hearns-Leonard II. Tommy again was fading as the final bell rang ending round 12 and the fight. Over the championship distance, Hearns would have succumbed late as he did before. I believe this is a key factor in Ray's willing concession that Tommy deserved the decision. I think he knows in his own mind that he would have repeated his win in their first bout with three more rounds to work with. (Of course he can't very well proclaim that after benefiting so enormously by eliminating the championship distance from his challenge of Hagler.)
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:17 AM   #25
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If the number of rounds in these fights changes, then the fighters involved would fight them completely differently.

It is frankly futile to speculate.
You've argued differently in the past
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:27 AM   #26
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
There would be no fuss (The referee doing his job, is not controversial in my book, he is not the timekeeper); if the result was TKO12 in a 15 rounder...

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Old 07-20-2011, 10:01 AM   #27
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

the last lamotta vs robinison would have come out different if it went 10 instead of 15 as they had lamotta ahead the first 8 rounds.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:45 AM   #28
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

Louis-Conn 1-1941...
Marciano-Walcott 1-1952...
Hearns-Leonard 1-1981...
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

What's interesting to me is that few outcomes in matches longer than the championship distance would have been reversed if 15 rounds had been the limit. Jeffries-Corbett I and Willard-Johnson are notable exceptions, but typically, whoever was ahead after 15 rounds proved to be the eventual winner. Hence, the naturally evolved championship distance. Today, Gans-Nelson I would have probably been stopped in round 15. Little was gained or changed by having it last 42 rounds, except for Bat's flagrant concessionary foul at the end.

In stark contrast, abolishing the championship distance in favor of a 12 round limit constituted a major amputation of boxing history, a legacy irretrievably lost. To me, it was like amputating a head or liver, a fatal procedure. Pac-PBF would not bring me back now, even if scheduled for the championship distance. It would be like attempting to transplant a new head to a decapitated corpse that's been dead for 30 years.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: Fights that would be effected if the number of rounds was changed

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You've argued differently in the past
Nobody seems to like my argument anyway, but when have I argued differently?

I have questioned how well some fighters would adapt to different distances, but I don't think I ever questioned that their preparations would reflect the distance.

What I am most skeptical of is the practice of taking a 15 round fight, chopping the last three rounds off, and assuming that you then have the outcome.
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