(P4P) Greater Fighter- Miguel Lora or Israel Vazquez ?????

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

P4P
Who is the greater fighter in your opinion ??

Why ?

Vazquez


or
Lora

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Damn....I forgot to make the poll a public one !

[Bogotazo]

Well the question is then whether or not Vasquez's resume (which includes Rafael Marquez, Oscar Larios, etc.) is greater than Lora's (which includes Daniel Zaragoza and Wilfredo Vasquez.) I'd have to say Lara for now.

Nice picks for comparison!

[lora]

I was never a supporter of Vazquez as a talent, though a solid steady likeable workhorse he undeniably was.

I think his legacy is more in the great entertaining fights he produced with Marquez(another fighter i was never a big fan of on his own terms...solid but basic, vulnerable boxer-puncher not nearly as good as his brother).Two solid well matched fighters with clear defensive and skill limitations beating the hell out of each other.

Lora ended up underachieving/falling short of atg'ness for various reasons, but had a 4 year run where he was a much more gifted, effective fighter than Vazquez in a stronger decade.

I'd compare Vazquez in talent and style more to someone like Lucio metrelleta Lopez from that era, albeit more consistent and not a headcase.Or maybe a poor man's non granite chinned Villasana at a stretch.

[The Funny Man 7]

I have to say that Vasquez achieved more even if he was a little less talented than Lora so I'll go with Izzy.

[anarci]

Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7

I have to say that Vasquez achieved more even if he was a little less talented than Lora so I'll go with Izzy.

^^ This,although his talent is underrated.

[lora]

meh, achievements are six and half a dozen between the two.Neither have great depth to their record, but Lora beat better fighters at the top end...even the past prime Davila was better than guys like Larios and Gonzalez, probably his best two wins outside Marquez.

Losses to a second rater like Larios and Marquez hurt Izzy a lot more than a decision loss to Jibaro Perez as well imo.

[WhataRock]

Though I rate Marquez as a very good fighter...A lot of Izzy's accolades come from those fights and the fact Marquez was bizarrely ranked so high.

Rafa's p4p credentials came about because he had a strong run at bantam...he in turn inherited some p4p kudo's from Austin who had a good run himself.

But were either really any better or more deserving of the no1 spot at the weight than Sahaprom?

If you are getting all these ratings because you are the without a doubt the best in your division then fair enough...but neither really proved that and I thought they had an inflated ranking in a p4p sense because of an American bias.

Put the Marquez into a bit of perspective I think it does paint Izzy's resume in a less rosier colour..The Gonzalez win was a good and with Jhonny has done since looks even better it must be said.
Larios another very good win, though Oscar does hold 1 pretty convincing win over Vasquez.

Outside of those wins it a little thin...I can't say that Izzy has that much better a resume really and IMO is clearly an inferior fighter.
I guess it depends how much stock you put in the Davila wins for Lora...I have never seen their first bout..Alberto looked done by the rematch.

[lora]

It was definite american visibility bias and overhyping Rock.

I don't have anything against Austin or Marquez, in fact i liked both as fighters, but there's no doubt there were attempts there to give them achievements and accolades they had yet to really earn.

Of course if they had been from or fighting in some marginal boxing country it probably goes the other way and they get a bit unfairly forgotten outside of the hardcore fans.

incidentally i thought Davila looked surprisingly sharp in the rematch, though the commentary was hilariously biased in his favour by Ruben Castillo etc.He was toyed with in the first fight, but had been out with a back injury.Davila aged really well compared to a lot of the more athletically reliant lighter weight fighters of the 80s\70a era's imo.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Originally Posted by lora

I was never a supporter of Vazquez as a talent, though a solid steady likeable workhorse he undeniably was.

I think his legacy is more in the great entertaining fights he produced with Marquez(another fighter i was never a big fan of on his own terms...solid but basic, vulnerable boxer-puncher not nearly as good as his brother).Two solid well matched fighters with clear defensive and skill limitations beating the hell out of each other.

Lora ended up underachieving/falling short of atg'ness for various reasons, but had a 4 year run where he was a much more gifted, effective fighter than Vazquez in a stronger decade.

I'd compare Vazquez in talent and style more to someone like Lucio metrelleta Lopez from that era, albeit more consistent and not a headcase.Or maybe a poor man's non granite chinned Villasana at a stretch.

Thanks for that mention of Lopez....you made me search about him and he seems a very interesting fighter...and an interesting character too.....
I´ll dig up more about......

[lora]

His fight with Raul Perez is a classic.

[anarci]

Originally Posted by lora

meh, achievements are six and half a dozen between the two.Neither have great depth to their record, but Lora beat better fighters at the top end...even the past prime Davila was better than guys like Larios and Gonzalez, probably his best two wins outside Marquez.

Losses to a second rater like Larios and Marquez hurt Izzy a lot more than a decision loss to Jibaro Perez as well imo.

Have you forgot about his ko loss to a faded Gaby Canizales? At least Marquez was in or close to his prime and id also rate Rafa higher than Gaby.

I guess when it comes down to it Vasquez triology with Rafa gives him the edge here... Zarragoza hadnt peaked yet (he got better with age).. So i dont rate Loras win over him as high as some here might.

PS and im a Gaby Canizales fan but he had trouble with slick or speedy boxers and Lora should have been able to pull this out over the faded Canizales,, Dont know why but chose to fight Gabys fight..

[WhataRock]

Probably cause he thought he could finish him off.

[anarci]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Probably cause he thought he could finish him off.

I was suprised he rocked Gaby like that.. WHo although old always showed a rock chin.. And Lora was never known as a big puncher... Exciting fight,for a second i forgot about him almost having Canizales out.


But like i said in the earlier post, his triology with Marquez does it for me.. .. WHo i think is unfairly being underrated here.. Blaming the American Press??? Come on Rafa was a legit and deserved his high pfp ranking.

[WhataRock]

Didn't Sahaprom then?