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Old 07-22-2011, 04:52 PM   #16
dwighttsharpe
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by DanishFightfan View Post
Maybe Haye could cut some weight with more cardio training and less weight lifting?
Agree. Seems almost too muscular, if that's possible.

I think he thinks he needs all that muscle for a "HW punch". Maybe he does for the giant Klits.

I still would love to see some fights between the top, smaller HWs.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
Haye cleaned out the division, only option was to move up.
He never faced Cunningham (IBF) or Bell (former UNDISPUTED, which Haye never was).

Adamek cleaned up for him.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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He never faced Cunningham (IBF) or Bell (former UNDISPUTED, which Haye never was).

Adamek cleaned up for him.
mormck was considered the much tougher opponent for haye out of him & bell.

& literally no-one was talking about steve cunningham. no-one. him & wlod were just the guys duking it out for the meaningless discarded title.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

He wouldn't have as much money as he has now.
He wouldn't have achieved his childhood dream.
Now he actually has a reason to retire.
And tbh I didn't watch Haye until he moved up to HW, knew about him but wasn't interesting.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

What is wrong with you guys??!! Get off of Haye's nuts.

Haye whole career is all hype. He has never faced anyone that was good. Cunningham was the IBF champion before he fought Enzo. After he beat Enzo he was like I've cleaned out the division. But he never fought Cunningham. Haye and his whole team did a really good job making people believers out of hope. I won't knock the mans hustle, but let's call a spade a spade.

It's 50-50 with him and Cunningham
He may have beat Tarver because his legs are pretty much done.
He beats Green and Huck.
Slight edge to him vs Lebedev (dangerous fight due to Lebedev's determination)
And Adamek would have beat him.

yeah... Haye......wow....
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

Who knows how Haye would have gone at cruiser? He had two title fights and then left the division. Hardly conclusive stuff.

Since then he has had one fight against a real champ and he got thrashed. He had one other fight against a legit top ten in his new division and struggled for an awful win.

A weak legacy at cruiser and an awful one at heavy.

If he had stayed at cruiser then he might have ended up with an overall better legacy. But we will never know, he may have been beaten just as badly at cruiser in his next fight, and have a terrible legacy. He is a deeply flawed boxer with shitty fundamentals - his next loss was a matter of time.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

Adamek would whoop that ass. Haye has been avoiding him like the plague.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:09 PM   #23
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by ploys View Post
i think he was just trying to highlight the size difference between wlad & haye rather than say he should/could still be a cw.

i doubt very much he could comfortably make cw...& there is no money in that division anyway...so why would he bother even if he could?
At least Steve and Wlod fought it out for a vacant title.

How exactly did Enzo come across his WBO belt
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by DanishFightfan View Post
1. Was he unable to make cruiser anymore? Was he forced to move up?
He weighed 210 in his last fight against Klitschko so YES he could've stayed at cruiser, no matter what he (or his dellusional fans) tell you. He moved up for the money, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by DanishFightfan View Post
2. If he stayed/could have stayed.. Would he have been able to beat: Huck, Lebedev, Tarver, Green and Cunningham?
Based on styles, I don't think he would've beat Cunningham or Adamek, but he could've beat Huck, Lebedev, Green and the old Tarver. The real question is, would he actually have fought any of them (other than Green)? Of that I'm not so sure.

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Originally Posted by DanishFightfan View Post
3. I know that Cunningham was around when Haye fought at that weight, but did he duck him? Or did Cunningham duck Haye?
I don't think either guy "ducked" the other, but Cunningham was willing to fight Adamek and he has travelled to Poland and Germany to fight for titles before so it's pretty clear to me he would've fought Haye if given the offer.

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Originally Posted by DanishFightfan View Post
4. If Haye managed to beat these guys and dominate the cruiserweight, how would he rank P4P?
Good question. If Haye had actually cleaned out CW and had all of the belts (RING, IBF, IBO, WBC, WBA, WBO) he'd have to be around #9-10 I'd think. If he actually racked up all those belts and defended them multiple times you'd have to call him the best CW ever based on accomplishments b/c nobody has ever done that.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
Haye cleaned out the division, only option was to move up.
and there was always going to be better money for him at heavyweight too.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

Definitely disagree that Haye "cleaned out the division". He beat a good Euro-contender in Fragomeni, beat an inactive and non-dominant champ in Mormeck, and then unified against hypejob Maccranelli.

Had Haye fought and beat Cunningham, Jones, Bell, and Wlod then he would have cleaned out the division, but he didn't.

Cunningham is/was the dominant crusier of this generation of fighters, not Haye. By taking Cunningham's belt, and beating former champ Bell, Adamek's claim to be cruiser lineal champ was stronger than Haye's.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by PolishPummler View Post
At least Steve and Wlod fought it out for a vacant title.

How exactly did Enzo come across his WBO belt
he won a vacant title after johnny nelson retired.

i fail to see the difference.

& whether or not enzo was a great champion (imo he was not) enzo/haye was a big money fight for both guys. uss & wlod were making peanuts by comparison. cunnigham's best ever payday doesn't even come close to how much both guys got for enzo/haye.

what was haye supposed to do...

"yeah...i;m not going to move up to hw where the money is...i'm not going to take the domestic fight thats been building up for a couple of years & is worth tons of money & setanta are pushing for...i'm going to fight that guy that struggled to win the title that by right should belong to the guy i just beat; & i'm gonna earn peanuts...cos in 4 years some nerds on a forum are gonna accuse me of ducking him..."
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
beat an inactive and non-dominant champ in Mormeck,
in comparison to cunningham or bell mormck wasn't inactive.

he had a hell of a time getting bell into the ring tho...
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

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Cunningham is/was the dominant crusier of this generation of fighters.
he's lost to adamek & wlod...

never been lineal pr unified champ...

& the ****er never fights.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: What if Haye stayed at Cruiser?

It is about the gap in earning capability.

Secondly, CW does not provide David with the path to the bigger things that David wants: [1] First Black 007 [2] Knighthood [3] "Brand Haye" [4] Etc.

Thirdly, David and Booth could not run their run their con scam at CW.
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