1975 Manila Muhammad Ali VS 1988 Michael Tyson

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Paradox

lol

Stinging like a bee and like a butterfly I will float....Imma make him my mistress, like in prison when he picked up the soap!

[Foreman Hook]

'It's gonna be a blood-spiller when i whup the roided-killer!'

[Bonecrusher]

I am going to have to go with Tyson here.. This in my eyes is Tyson at his absolute peak, or at least very close to it, he may have been a little sharper in maybe the Spinks fight or maybe Biggs, your choice but regardless this was Mike during his "Prime"... I don't see this Ali beating this Tyson

Mike will find a home to Ali's body and head in this one, this Ali didn't move all that well on his toes and he would lay on the ropes and absorb his opponents punches and then spring off with his own wicked combos.. I think Tyson will brutalize the Ali body as Ali lays on the ropes.. And he will drive hard uppercuts through the middle of the Muhammad Defense..

I don't see him stopping Ali as I think he is pretty much KO or stoppage proof, I actually picked Muhammad Ali to win by Dec in the poll since he had a knack for winning decisions that he may have actually lost.. I see Tyson getting the better of Ali but Ali I think will still have the cards.. But if we are to throw out intangibles like the judges love affair with Ali then I say Tyson wins a Dec....

[DudeGuyMan]

I think Bonecrusher pretty much nailed it. Prime for prime I pick Ali, but this is past-prime Ali against Tyson at his absolute pinnacle.

[FJAY360]

I always thought this was interesting, not to say its proof that he can't win a decision against Ali.

He (Atlas) talked about Mike and told a few stories of how he believed Mike never had that internal confidence or fortitude to be the great fighter he should have been.
The one story was when Mike was 16 and was engaged in an amatuer fight with a big white kid. Up to this point, in his amatuer career, he was killing everyone. Just one knockout after another. But in this fight Mike knocked the kid down twice in the first round. However, unlike his previous opponents the kid kept getting up. After the 1st round had ended he went back to his corner and told Teddy to stop the fight because his hand was broken. Teddy said that he knew it wasn't and feared that Mike was playing games. But he had to see if it was broke just in case. So he grabbed Mikes hand and squeezed it as hard as he could. Mike didn't even flinch. He continued to stare over Teddy's shoulder at his opponent. Atlas told Mike that 'your hand ain't broke, you're broke'. He could tell that Mike was scared. Up till now, everyone stayed down but this kid was game. Even though his opponent refused to stay down Mike was still easily winning the fight and he told Mike this.

Tyson begrudgingly went out for round two. Mike dropped him twice more in this round but once again, the kid kept getting up. So at the end of the round, Mike again sits down and tells Atlas to stop the fight because he's exhausted and he's going to get killed. Atlas got very angry at this point. He started yelling at Mike that he wasn't even getting hit. All of this kids shots were either missing or winging off of Mikes gloves and shoulders. He said that if he were the ref he'd have stopped the fight a long time ago because Mike was busting him up.

But he could tell that Mike was scared. Because this kid wasn't playing the role of the helpless lamb, he didn't know how to handle it. Eventually, Atlas had to grab Mike and literally shove him back into the ring to get him to fight.

The 3rd round starts and Mike and his opponent are just hugging each other. Neither one is punching just mauling. But then, at one point, the white kid is pushing Mike against the ropes and Atlas sees that Mike is going to go down - just like in the McBride fight, Teddy points out. Atlas jumps on the edge of the canvas and yells at Mike "Don't you do what I think you're going to do!". Eventually the bell rang and Mike got the "W" but like Atlas pointed out, he was going to tank the fight simply because this kid was standing up to him and he'd never experienced that before.
Atlas said that the same thing kind of happened in the Tucker and Bonecrusher fights. Mike was winning both fights easily until about the 5th and 6th rounds, when he realised that neither guy was going to just take a shot and lay down, so he decided to accept what Teddy called "silent treaties". A silent treatie is when both fighters clinch and silently agree to not throw punches. Kind of like "I won't hit you if you don't hit me". Atlas said that both Tucker and Bonecrusher didn't mind agreeing to these because they didn't want to get hurt.

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by FJAY360

I always thought this was interesting, not to say its proof that he can't win a decision against Ali.

He (Atlas) talked about Mike and told a few stories of how he believed Mike never had that internal confidence or fortitude to be the great fighter he should have been.
The one story was when Mike was 16 and was engaged in an amatuer fight with a big white kid. Up to this point, in his amatuer career, he was killing everyone. Just one knockout after another. But in this fight Mike knocked the kid down twice in the first round. However, unlike his previous opponents the kid kept getting up. After the 1st round had ended he went back to his corner and told Teddy to stop the fight because his hand was broken. Teddy said that he knew it wasn't and feared that Mike was playing games. But he had to see if it was broke just in case. So he grabbed Mikes hand and squeezed it as hard as he could. Mike didn't even flinch. He continued to stare over Teddy's shoulder at his opponent. Atlas told Mike that 'your hand ain't broke, you're broke'. He could tell that Mike was scared. Up till now, everyone stayed down but this kid was game. Even though his opponent refused to stay down Mike was still easily winning the fight and he told Mike this.

Tyson begrudgingly went out for round two. Mike dropped him twice more in this round but once again, the kid kept getting up. So at the end of the round, Mike again sits down and tells Atlas to stop the fight because he's exhausted and he's going to get killed. Atlas got very angry at this point. He started yelling at Mike that he wasn't even getting hit. All of this kids shots were either missing or winging off of Mikes gloves and shoulders. He said that if he were the ref he'd have stopped the fight a long time ago because Mike was busting him up.

But he could tell that Mike was scared. Because this kid wasn't playing the role of the helpless lamb, he didn't know how to handle it. Eventually, Atlas had to grab Mike and literally shove him back into the ring to get him to fight.

The 3rd round starts and Mike and his opponent are just hugging each other. Neither one is punching just mauling. But then, at one point, the white kid is pushing Mike against the ropes and Atlas sees that Mike is going to go down - just like in the McBride fight, Teddy points out. Atlas jumps on the edge of the canvas and yells at Mike "Don't you do what I think you're going to do!". Eventually the bell rang and Mike got the "W" but like Atlas pointed out, he was going to tank the fight simply because this kid was standing up to him and he'd never experienced that before.
Atlas said that the same thing kind of happened in the Tucker and Bonecrusher fights. Mike was winning both fights easily until about the 5th and 6th rounds, when he realised that neither guy was going to just take a shot and lay down, so he decided to accept what Teddy called "silent treaties". A silent treatie is when both fighters clinch and silently agree to not throw punches. Kind of like "I won't hit you if you don't hit me". Atlas said that both Tucker and Bonecrusher didn't mind agreeing to these because they didn't want to get hurt.

100% AGREE with it all.

Teddy Atlas is teh no.1 XPERT on Tyson!

Nobody knows Tyson like Teddy does.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Foreman Hook

100% AGREE with it all.

Teddy Atlas is teh no.1 XPERT on Tyson!

Nobody knows Tyson like Teddy does.

Agreed Hook Tyson would have been in most people's all time top 5 list of heavyweights if his mentality went with his physicality.

[Tuaman]

1975 Ali would get smashed by a peaking Tyson had they fought. Ali barely, barely squeaked past a washed up Joe Frazier.

[zicas]

'I'm gonna jab, jab, jab that ghetto thug, till he looks like a ugly pug!'

'It's gonna be a corker, when i get the gangster, calling himself a New Yorker!'

'I'm gonna show that big dumb ape, there ain't nothing funny about rape!'

'I will be the mugger, when i fight that slugger!'

[tommygun711]

Originally Posted by Tuaman

1975 Ali would get smashed by a peaking Tyson had they fought. Ali barely, barely squeaked past a washed up Joe Frazier.

That's an exaggeration. those last few rounds were one sided and most of the time Ali was swamping Frazier with right hands and combos

[anut]

ali was 33........ 12 lbs overweight and laid on the ropes way too much and lost his legs by 1975/ mike tyson of 1988 woulda stopped that version of ali/

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Foreman Hook

'It's gonna be a blood-spiller when i whup the roided-killer!'

"I'm gonna handcuff lightning and that ugly pug Tyson's gonna find me frightening"

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Tuaman

1975 Ali would get smashed by a peaking Tyson had they fought. Ali barely, barely squeaked past a washed up Joe Frazier.

That is a myth,imo. Ali was a fair bit in front,points wise,at the time of stoppage.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by anut

ali was 33........ 12 lbs overweight and laid on the ropes way too much and lost his legs by 1975/ mike tyson of 1988 woulda stopped that version of ali/

This was the Ali who'd just stopped the previously invincible George Foreman. How many all time greats in heavyweight boxing history,before or since,could have beaten George on that night in Zaire ?

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

"I'm gonna handcuff lightning and that ugly pug Tyson's gonna find me frightening"

'He's gonna show such roid-rage, i'm gonna prove he belongs in a monkey-cage!"'

'The beast who's all muscle-mass, is gonna get put on his ass!'

'That big dumb palooka is gonna need a bazooka, if he wants to hurt Muhammad Ali!'

'PHANTOM-PUNCH! they will shout, when i score a clean knockout!'

'That man's got two left feet, and i'm gonna be dancing, to make it look like he's slipping on sleet!'