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Old 08-02-2011, 12:21 AM   #31
lora
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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I do chuckle at the "dominated Julian Jackson" viewpoint -- he "dominated" three rounds and change. I've seen more unlikely comebacks.

And when he did get hit, like most of Jackson's victims, he was absolutely comatose.

In the end, I'd say Julian did more dominating with one punch than poor Herol did in 3+ rounds.

He only got that chance though because Graham was never the best of ring-generals, got complacent, sloppy and needlessly went for a knockout knowing Jackson was getting told he only had a round or two before he was getting hauled out.PLenty of lesser hitters would have taken him out too if given a similar free shot with the ridiculous position Graham put himself in.The fact it was Jackson just made the KO overkill really.

I'm more of a jackson fan than a Graham one, but Julian got the piss beat out of him that night and it was damage done early in that bout that really finished his eyesight off.

An embarassing night for both fighters really.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:05 AM   #32
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

Maybe someone across the pond can help me out on this one. I was subscribing to Boxing News at the time of the first loss to Kalambay and there was a bit of trouble brewing over Graham's management and his lifelong trainer Brendan Ingle. Whatever it was, Ingle was not allowed to train or be in the corner of Graham that night (was he ever in his corner again?). Regardless, Ingle was there at ringside for the fight and BN reported that as the rounds progressed Ingle became more visibly agitated until finally leaping out of his seat screaming, "Herol, use your jab!" Can anyone shed light on what happened between management and Ingle and who was in his corner that night??

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Old 08-02-2011, 01:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

Let's not forget the Kalambay fight was Graham's first without Brendan Ingle. Barney Eastwood tried changing him into an offensive fighter for that fight, because his defensive style pre-Kalambay wasn't very crowd-pleasing. He already signed to fight Barkley for the world title and Kalambay was supposed to be a tune-up.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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I've always wondered if McCallum's fights with Graham and kalambay(2) were given an american broadcast incidentally.
They weren't. For some reason, McCallum never had American-TV backing (that's the reason the Eubank fight never took place).

NBC chose Benn-Watson over Graham-McCallum.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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Maybe someone across the pond can help me out on this one. I was subscribing to Boxing News at the time of the first loss to Kalambay and there was a bit of trouble brewing over Graham's management and his lifelong trainer Brendan Ingle. Whatever it was, Ingle was not allowed to train or be in the corner of Graham that night (was he ever in his corner again?). Regardless, Ingle was there at ringside for the fight and BN reported that as the rounds progressed Ingle became more visibly agitated until finally leaping out of his seat screaming, "Herol, use your jab!" Can anyone shed light on what happened between management and Ingle and who was in his corner that night??

Scartissue
Money matters, Graham left him but went back
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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He only got that chance though because Graham was never the best of ring-generals, got complacent, sloppy and needlessly went for a knockout knowing Jackson was getting told he only had a round or two before he was getting hauled out.PLenty of lesser hitters would have taken him out too if given a similar free shot with the ridiculous position Graham put himself in.The fact it was Jackson just made the KO overkill really.

I'm more of a jackson fan than a Graham one, but Julian got the piss beat out of him that night and it was damage done early in that bout that really finished his eyesight off.

An embarassing night for both fighters really.
Graham was clever but his style turned me off, that Brendan Ingle ,chin in the air stuff .
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
He only got that chance though because Graham was never the best of ring-generals, got complacent, sloppy and needlessly went for a knockout knowing Jackson was getting told he only had a round or two before he was getting hauled out.PLenty of lesser hitters would have taken him out too if given a similar free shot with the ridiculous position Graham put himself in.The fact it was Jackson just made the KO overkill really.

I'm more of a jackson fan than a Graham one, but Julian got the piss beat out of him that night and it was damage done early in that bout that really finished his eyesight off.

An embarassing night for both fighters really.
He was going for the KO because he was mad that Jackson had knocked his new teeth out
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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Graham was clever but his style turned me off, that Brendan Ingle ,chin in the air stuff .
Ingle didn't invent that style, Graham did, Ingle adopted it
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:09 PM   #39
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

A but unrelated, but I'm watching McCallum-Kalambay II again. What a peach of a fight that is! Such skill on display.
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:45 PM   #40
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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Ingle didn't invent that style, Graham did, Ingle adopted it
I know. I'm not a fan of either.
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Old 08-03-2011, 06:05 AM   #41
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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You are using 24 years of hindsight with modern technology to boot.

Hardly anyone in Britain would of seen Kalule/Kalambay at the time, plenty saw Kalule/Graham, thus Bomber/Sambu was a mismatch. Of course we know that is not boxing, but it was very easy to make that assumption at the time, and thus Graham rightly got called on it...
I'm not disputing it was an upset..or that Bomber was expected to win.

Kalambay was an unknown quantity and based on common opponents, Herol should have dealt with him.

I'm just saying when reflecting on his career he shouldn't be judged harshly for not being able to beat Kalambay..because clearly Sumbu was a lot better than people expected him to be.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:23 AM   #42
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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I'm not disputing it was an upset..or that Bomber was expected to win.

Kalambay was an unknown quantity and based on common opponents, Herol should have dealt with him.

I'm just saying when reflecting on his career he shouldn't be judged harshly for not being able to beat Kalambay..because clearly Sumbu was a lot better than people expected him to be.
Yes, I would say that now, but even after Kalambay's upset win over McCallum, I was still mighty ticked off that the Bomber had blown the fight, not least because Barkley looked so poor losing to Kalambay.

I think Kalambay was a very good fighter, but I am not sold on him like some round here. Graham, 24 years of hindsight or not, had the ability to beat Kalambay, but IMO, lacked the mental strength of the Italian, who kudos to him, made the most of that.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:17 PM   #43
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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Maybe someone across the pond can help me out on this one. I was subscribing to Boxing News at the time of the first loss to Kalambay and there was a bit of trouble brewing over Graham's management and his lifelong trainer Brendan Ingle. Whatever it was, Ingle was not allowed to train or be in the corner of Graham that night (was he ever in his corner again?). Regardless, Ingle was there at ringside for the fight and BN reported that as the rounds progressed Ingle became more visibly agitated until finally leaping out of his seat screaming, "Herol, use your jab!" Can anyone shed light on what happened between management and Ingle and who was in his corner that night??

Scartissue
I think it was a fairly typical disagreement about their contract & the money. The book "Paddy And The Prince" has the details. Allegedly Ingle was so angry he had started thinking about killing Graham during a training session.

I'm guessing they worked together again then had another fallout, as they made up a few years ago on camera after not speaking for many years. They met in a cafe and Graham simply apologized for everything that happened.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:51 PM   #44
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

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I think it was a fairly typical disagreement about their contract & the money. The book "Paddy And The Prince" has the details. Allegedly Ingle was so angry he had started thinking about killing Graham during a training session.

I'm guessing they worked together again then had another fallout, as they made up a few years ago on camera after not speaking for many years. They met in a cafe and Graham simply apologized for everything that happened.

Thanks, Joe. Don't know if it would have made a difference with Ingle in his corner that night, but Herol was on quite a run at that time and it does appear to be evident that Ingle was part of the reason he was there in the first place.

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Old 08-03-2011, 11:27 PM   #45
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Default Re: Herol Graham: I don't get the love

It was Eastwood's Panamanian trainers that worked Graham's corner that night.Bernardo Checa etc guys that had worked with the likes of zapata.

They were trying to work on Graham's offense and get him a bit more technically schooled around that time(86-87), but after he lost to Kalambay there ended up being the idea pushed by some that he had lost because he had changed his style, got rid of Ingle etc
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