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Old 08-02-2011, 11:15 PM   #1
TIGEREDGE
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Default Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

There is no doubt in my mind that there is some luck involved in making it as trainer. Youve got to have worked with the right talent (or have right connections) to get the recognition

There are some great trainers who have never got recognition cos they havent trained any Heralded fighters. There are some that are just pure lucky. That are fundametally very wrong Like Brendan Ingle

This guy trains everyone with the hands down, switch hitting style of Bomber Graham and Naz

Theres the guy who trainer SRR who thought he was better than sliced bread. Mickey Duff famously put him in his place about Robinson being the only fighter of distinction that he has trained

Which established trainers have genuinly proven that they can make a great difference to a fighter no matter how talented they are.

Freddie Roach, Eddie Futch, Ray Arcel and Manny Steward have proven over and over again that they can improve anyone
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Emanuel Steward is neither lucky nor a genius , just picks the physically gifted .
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Just because a fighter is physically gifted doesnt mean he can be great.
Theres a ton of unsuccessful physically gifted fighters. The role of the trainer on this forum is so underated its funny. Fighters dont become great and maintain their greatness on their own. The trainer is a mentor and a life coach as much as they are a strategist or conditioner. I dont know of any fighters that sustained greatness with a bozo leading them.

Sure some luck is involved, and there are plenty of qualifed guys who only get to work with one or two successful fighters their entire career. Emanuel Steward is a very rich man now, but he paid his dues, and hes marketed himself well and seeks out fighters he doesnt have to do much with to make them better, but on the flipside theres been plenty of fighters that Emanuel Steward started off with that later left him. Guys like Mcallum, Mclellan and Moorer for example.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Allot of trainers know certain things that work but don't know other aspects. Steward for example is very good at teaching outfighters to keep range, work the jab but I don't think is a good teacher of in fighting, his solution to in fighting seems to be to get his fighter to clinch and lean on their man. Quite of his fighters taking a pasting when their range is taken away - Hearns, McClellan, Wlad. With Lewis he inherited a fighter with a great uppercut though.

His fighters also seem to lack stamina and fade down the stretch sometimes and some have lost stamina when they switched to him (Taylor for 1) so I wonder if he doesn't focus much on roadwork/stamina.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Emanuel Steward is neither lucky nor a genius , just picks the physically gifted .
Andries
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

I think Futch was, for the most part, a bonafide genius....and so was Charley Goldman.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Futch , Arcel and Steward are the trinity of superiority over all other trainers.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

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Futch , Arcel and Steward are the trinity of superiority over all other trainers.
I mean't to include Arcel and Steward as well.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

I think Nacho Beristein has cemented his status as a genius and I expect Abner Mares' future success to accentuate that.

It's no accident his fighters always show up in absolute peak condition, have perfect technique etc. He's also a great cutman to boot. His fighters are always use good head movement, flawless balance, go to the body diligently, work off the jab, and stay disciplined.

What I'm trying to say is that Beristein trains well balanced fighters.And he doesn't just pick up fighters who are already gifted and tweak a few things like Steward. He takes a guy from day one, shows him how to throw a jab and hit the speed bag and then mints him into a champion.

He did it with Ricardo Lopez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Rafael Marquez, and Daniel Zaragoza. Zaragoza and Lopez are in the hall of fame and both Marquez brothers are guaranteed spots there. And don't forget his work with Victor Rabanales and Abner Mares
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Don't get me wrong Steward is one of the top 5 trainers of all time but he has an awful lot of misses to his name as well. He couldn't do a thing with Jermain Taylor or Kermit Cintron who both had all the talent in the world and he can't teach Andy Lee how to block a punch.

I know that has something to do with the mental shortcomings of Taylor and Cintron but when you get down to it a good trainer should be a natural psychologist as Whitey Bimstein used to say. I can't help but favor the nuanced tact and patience of guys like Arcel, Bimstein, Futch, and Roach over the screaming and hollering of the Giachetti's, Stewards', and Shields' of the world.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

I consider Roach and Futch as the best. Maybe there were a few more.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

What do you guys think about Bill Gore? He molded a nervous teenager in Willie Pep into a masterful boxer mover. To me, that's the sign of a great trainer. Being able to give a fighter a style which fits perfectly into their strengths and weaknesses. He also trained Ezzard Charles and some other very good fighters although im not quite sure how much he was teaching them or if he just picked them up ala Steward.

Here's a list of some other fighters he's trained.

Roy Harris
Tony Licata
Joey Archer
Bob Foster
Joe Brown
Willie Pep
Ezzard Charles
Cleveland Williams
Manuel Gonzalez
Del Flanagan
Mike McTigue
Melino Bettina
Johnny Cesario
Bobby Woods
Danny Nardico
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

roach is alright. futch is the man though. blackburn was too. dundee is actually a better trainer than i thought.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
I think Nacho Beristein has cemented his status as a genius and I expect Abner Mares' future success to accentuate that.

It's no accident his fighters always show up in absolute peak condition, have perfect technique etc. He's also a great cutman to boot. His fighters are always use good head movement, flawless balance, go to the body diligently, work off the jab, and stay disciplined.

What I'm trying to say is that Beristein trains well balanced fighters.And he doesn't just pick up fighters who are already gifted and tweak a few things like Steward. He takes a guy from day one, shows him how to throw a jab and hit the speed bag and then mints him into a champion.

He did it with Ricardo Lopez, Juan Manuel Marquez, Rafael Marquez, and Daniel Zaragoza. Zaragoza and Lopez are in the hall of fame and both Marquez brothers are guaranteed spots there. And don't forget his work with Victor Rabanales and Abner Mares
Good call
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Trainers: Lucky Or Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
Don't get me wrong Steward is one of the top 5 trainers of all time but he has an awful lot of misses to his name as well. He couldn't do a thing with Jermain Taylor or Kermit Cintron who both had all the talent in the world and he can't teach Andy Lee how to block a punch.

I know that has something to do with the mental shortcomings of Taylor and Cintron but when you get down to it a good trainer should be a natural psychologist as Whitey Bimstein used to say. I can't help but favor the nuanced tact and patience of guys like Arcel, Bimstein, Futch, and Roach over the screaming and hollering of the Giachetti's, Stewards', and Shields' of the world.
theres only so much a trainer can do. It is largely in the hands of the fighter whetehr he takes in what the trainer learns him
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