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Old 12-10-2007, 02:34 PM   #61
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

I rate tommy hearns as my number 4 welterweight of all time. Like randy moss, he was a freak of nature for his sport.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:54 PM   #62
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
I rate tommy hearns as my number 4 welterweight of all time. Like randy moss, he was a freak of nature for his sport.
I have him around 7 or 8 last time i did one, can u post ur welterweight rankings, if you dont mind.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:27 PM   #63
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Brownpimp really is a bad poster. It's quite unbelievable how lacking he is of logic.
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Old 12-10-2007, 08:55 PM   #64
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Pernell Whitaker - Whitakers more talented, FLoyd more schooled but Whitaker would win by a razor thin margin if they squared off but its very close. Resume Floyd is better. Floyd was linear champ in 3 divisions and best in 5 divisions. Was Whitaker ever linear?

Thomas Hearns - Came up short in his biggest fights AND against bigger average opponents. DOES FLOYD LOSE TO 1 140LB VERSION OF BARKLEY? No, Floyd therefore ranks higher

Marvin Hagler - who is more unbeatable - Floyd at 130 or Marvin at 160? I say Floyd at 130

Roy Jones Jr - RJJ more talented and dominant, Floyd better schooled. RJJ has the better signature wins, PBF the deeper resume

Oscar De La Hoya - Mayweather schooled an older 34yo Oscar by 9rounds to 3. Oscar was 14lbs heavier come fight night and 3 inches taller. If you watch the fight in slowmo you'll see OScar couldnt land clean all night.

Mayweather wouldnt lose to Quartey (Oscar lost), Limited Trinidad (Oscar won) & Mosley at 147. MAyweather would also beat EVERYONE Oscar beat. Oscar would probably beat everyone PBF beat but may have slipped up against some of the better opponents
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Old 12-11-2007, 01:09 AM   #65
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Pernell Whitaker - Whitakers more talented, FLoyd more schooled but Whitaker would win by a razor thin margin if they squared off but its very close. Resume Floyd is better. Floyd was linear champ in 3 divisions and best in 5 divisions. Was Whitaker ever linear?
Does being lineal necessarily make your resume better? Mayweather was linear in more weight divisions than Ray Robinson, but its hilarious to suggest that he has a better resume than Ray.

Is there anyone as good as Chavez on Mayweather's resume?

Is there anyone as good as Nelson on Mayweather's resume?

DLH you might say: Well, is a 34 year old DLH better than a 24 year old one?


Quote:
Thomas Hearns - Came up short in his biggest fights AND against bigger average opponents. DOES FLOYD LOSE TO 1 140LB VERSION OF BARKLEY? No, Floyd therefore ranks higher
Does Floyd outbox a SRL equivalent at 130 for 14 rounds? Highly doubt it.

Does he beat a Benitez level fighter at 135? Hard to say. His performances at that weight were nothing too amazing you'd have to say.


Quote:
Marvin Hagler - who is more unbeatable - Floyd at 130 or Marvin at 160? I say Floyd at 130
I'd say Hagler. Giving him the Ray win, I think he bested better fighters at 160 than Floyd did at 130 (and every other weight class combined for that matter).

Quote:
Roy Jones Jr - RJJ more talented and dominant, Floyd better schooled. RJJ has the better signature wins, PBF the deeper resume
What exactly makes Mayweather's resume deeper?

Quote:
Oscar De La Hoya - Mayweather schooled an older 34yo Oscar by 9rounds to 3. Oscar was 14lbs heavier come fight night and 3 inches taller. If you watch the fight in slowmo you'll see OScar couldnt land clean all night.
9 rounds to 3? I may have a rediculous scorecard for the fight by most people's estimations, but Mayweather did not beat Oscar 9 rounds to 3 and he definitely didn't school him. Unless you count punches landed on gloves as part of the lesson.

Quote:
Mayweather wouldnt lose to Quartey (Oscar lost), Limited Trinidad (Oscar won) & Mosley at 147. MAyweather would also beat EVERYONE Oscar beat. Oscar would probably beat everyone PBF beat but may have slipped up against some of the better opponents
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mayweather lost to all the guys you mentioned. All the guys you mentioned are step ups to EVERYONE FLoyd has on his resume. That he already (arguably) lost to Castillo and (in my perhaps stupid opinion) an old DLH, gives me much pause for thought on how he'd perform in those matches.

There's nothing Oscar has done in his career to suggest that he loses to the calibre of fighters Floyd has fought. Oscar has always cleaned that level of comp up (with the exception of course of Sturm, which occured past Oscar's prime and with DLH out of shape).

Last edited by sweet_scientist; 12-11-2007 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:48 AM   #66
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Is there anyone as good as Chavez on Mayweather's resume?
Is there anyone as good as Nelson on Mayweather's resume?
What has Chavez achieved at welterweight (what're his 3 best wins at 147lb limit)? What has Nelson achieved at lightweight (what's his record in two fights at 135lb limit)?
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:59 AM   #67
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
What has Chavez achieved at welterweight (what're his 3 best wins at 147lb limit)? What has Nelson achieved at lightweight (what's his record in two fights at 135lb limit)?
Both achieved nothing at the weights they fought Whitaker at. You may say that's becuase they didn't belong there. I say its because Whitaker embarassed both and sent them packing back to the divisions they came from.

Do you think Chavez (who came in at 142 to Whitaker's 145) for example, wouldn't have easily defeated anyone Floyd's fought at 147?

Or, let's pose another question: does the Chavez that faced Whitaker, becuase he's done **** all at 147, likely lose to say a Miguel Cotto, becuase Cotto has done something at 147? I'd make Chavez favourite to stop him actually. What do you think?
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:38 AM   #68
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Hamshos record at 160 is much better than hearns
So what? Records don't win fights where it counts. Hamsho was tough, but crude, pretty slow and not a big hitter. He also cut. This is all good for Hearns. Hearns sure as hell gave Hagler a better fight in their short time tham Hamsho did in two fights.

Quote:
Iran barkely knocked thomas hearns out.
Barkley has punching power Hamsho would cut off a finger for. Don't look for Hamsho to be dropping Hearns with a desperation haymaker, hell he pummelled the very average chinned Benitez at 160 for a full fight and didn't even stop him.

Quote:
Many people say valdez would have been a star if it wasnt for monzon, hamsho has a better resume than him at 160.
Would you say Hamsho is a better fighter than Valdez? LOL! Who did Hamsho beat better than Briscoe? Did Hamsho do as well vs Hagler in two fights as Valdez did vs Monzon?

Quote:
You would pick duran to beat hamsho, why cuz he beat davey moore and a shot cuevas, lol.
You're too hung up on simple results. Smell the roses and look at styles for gods sake. Duran even at the higher weights still fought well vs aggressive fighters, especially those he knew were up for a fight. Hey, he did a helluva lot better vs Hagler than your hero Hamsho. No doubt about that. How's that apple? I'm not sure Duran's win over Barkley would be considered below a win over Hamsho. Not sure at all.

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I'm sorry but didnt he drop decisions to kirklaind lang and ****in robbie sims, many people say that barkely arguably beat him too.
Jeez, what am i dealing with. What have Laing and Sims got in common with Hamsho? Again, use the brain a bit, STYLES!!!!!!! Also, MOTIVATION!! THINK about it!!!

Quote:
My knwoedlge is pisspoor regarding hearns even though i have seen his important fights and one of my buddies is his biggest fan ever and virtually has all his fights, dream on.
Seeing all his fights doesn't make one knowledgable. Hell, numerous people at school were put thru the same classes and teachings and saw similar things but it didn't guarantee everyone would get above dummy grades. Some people just don't and/or can't get it

Quote:
It doesnt matter if heanrs moved up to fight benitez, it was visibly clear as to who the bigger man was.


Quote:
Either way, p4p mayweather is going to go down as the greater fighter after he retires so i dont know why i'm wasting my time arguing with you.
Argument? Nah, they're two sided. I never ACTUALLY said Hearns belongs above Floyd (some will debate it tho, i haven't given it much thought), i simply called you out on a pisspoor statement that you have failed miserably to support. The further it's gone the worse you've looked TBH.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:06 AM   #69
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

I know the current fashion is to rate mayweather very highly but i cant put him above any of those fighters resume/achievement wise.
Whitaker,hearns and hagler all have great wins over atg opposition,jones has wins over a few greats and de la hoya has fought well in great company as well...The only great proven fighter that floyd has beat is de la hoya...Skills wise maybe mayweather is on a par or ALL round better than all of these guys but i consider that the true test of skill is applying it when under the pressure and fighting truely great opposition...
Though i like hatton,at welter he would be beaten by many even half decent fighters,look to ray leonard v dave boy green to see how hatton would be dealt with by a true atg.
I understand floyds logic in saying he wants to retire of his own volition and not let boxing retire him,but he is wrong if he thinks he has established himself resume wise as the greatest of all time.
I remind posters of roy jones,julio c chavez (and to a lesser extent don curry ) of boxers who at one time where considered unbeatable or vying for top ten p4p atg status,yet fell short when the opposition worked them out.
Unfortunately for floyd he has no truely great fighters to beat around welter (though cotto might yet show something.) and he is at a division where he is disadvantaged size and power wise. If he went through the welter division currently and beat them all he would show that he truely beat whatever was put in front of him style wise without ducking anyone. However,i feel floyds wear and tear,his attitude that he doesnt need to prove anything more along with his hard bargaining may discount this scenario. I hope im wrong and that the hatton win gives him the impetus to unify the welterweights then retire...
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:47 AM   #70
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Both achieved nothing at the weights they fought Whitaker at. You may say that's becuase they didn't belong there. I say its because Whitaker embarassed both and sent them packing back to the divisions they came from.
The point is those facts reduce the significance of those achievements. When you beat a fighter who achieved something at a given weight, it's more significant, than a win over fighter who achieved something at lower weights only. When you mention Chavez or Nelson, you are talking about them in general or about them at lower weights. There are a lot of examples when a great fighter stepping up in weight, even if it's just a few pounds, suddenly wasn't as successful anymore, sometimes even against mediocre opposition. Too many examples to theorize about what could be if they faced somebody else, and not Whitaker, would they be successful at that weight or not.
So I don't think it's fair to ask if Mayweather fought anyone like those versions of these two fighters, or to degrade the win over DLH (majority saw it as a win for Floyd). At the weight the fight took place at, Oscar was a proven fighter, whereas neither Chavez nor Nelson were ever proven at the weight they faced Whitaker at.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:36 AM   #71
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Pernell Whitaker no
Thomas Hearns yes
Marvin Hagler yes
Roy Jones Jr. it is close.
Oscar De La Hoya yes
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:47 AM   #72
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

I think many people forget the great wins of some of these previous fighters.
Tommy hearns outboxing benitez,blitzing duran,outboxing hill,destroying cuevas. (not to mention giving life and death to ray leonard and hagler,and winning the second leonard fight.)
Marvin hagler blitzing tommy hearns. (a better achievement than any of mayweathers career perfomances.)
Whitaker schooling jc chavez and nelson and giving peak trinidad and de la hoya good fights.
Jones thrashing p4p no1 toney and dominating hopkins,beating ruiz and destroying hill inside.
Oscar twice blitzing chavez,beating sweet pea,close fight with peak trinidad.

Now mayweather has beaten an older de la hoya in a split decision,and knocks out a small limited hatton and suddenly he trumps all these guys?
Sorry,you need to beat great fighters...
One loss or telling perfomance is all it needs for floyd and his fans to go back down to earth with a bump,just ask shane moslely pre forrest and post...
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:48 AM   #73
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
1. Does being lineal necessarily make your resume better? Mayweather was linear in more weight divisions than Ray Robinson, but its hilarious to suggest that he has a better resume than Ray.

2. Is there anyone as good as Chavez on Mayweather's resume?

Is there anyone as good as Nelson on Mayweather's resume?

DLH you might say: Well, is a 34 year old DLH better than a 24 year old one?


3. Does Floyd outbox a SRL equivalent at 130 for 14 rounds? Highly doubt it.

4. Does he beat a Benitez level fighter at 135? Hard to say. His performances at that weight were nothing too amazing you'd have to say.

5. I'd say Hagler. Giving him the Ray win, I think he bested better fighters at 160 than Floyd did at 130 (and every other weight class combined for that matter).


6. What exactly makes Mayweather's resume deeper?


7. 9 rounds to 3? I may have a rediculous scorecard for the fight by most people's estimations, but Mayweather did not beat Oscar 9 rounds to 3 and he definitely didn't school him. Unless you count punches landed on gloves as part of the lesson.

8. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mayweather lost to all the guys you mentioned. All the guys you mentioned are step ups to EVERYONE FLoyd has on his resume. That he already (arguably) lost to Castillo and (in my perhaps stupid opinion) an old DLH, gives me much pause for thought on how he'd perform in those matches.

9. There's nothing Oscar has done in his career to suggest that he loses to the calibre of fighters Floyd has fought. Oscar has always cleaned that level of comp up (with the exception of course of Sturm, which occured past Oscar's prime and with DLH out of shape).
1. Lineal makes you no1 in your division and the true champ, taking a splinter belt isnt as good as lineal.

Mayweather has beat 7 Lineal Champions past or present

2. A past prime Chavez? Delahoya certainly is. Prime Castillo who was bigger and pressured more than Chavez isn't a world better. A huge Corrales that was a destoying machine isnt far off. A bigger Hatton is

Mayweather would have schooled that Chavez just like Whitaker did

3. Would Mayweather outbox 1 130lb Leonard for 14rounds? Probably not, maybe he'd win, maybe he'd lose, I doubt he'd get stopped. Remember Floyd Sr caused Leonard problems, the better Floyd jr may have won.

4. Yes Mayweather beats Benitez for my money but it would be closish.

Mayweather never loses to a 140lb Barkley EVER


5. Haglers 160 comp is overrated and ayweathers underated. PBF cleaned out 130 fighting the top5 fighters - G Hernandez (lineal champ), Corrales (P4P before and after), Chavez (future champ), Manfredy, C Henandez (future champ). He also wanted Hamed but didnt get him

Hagler lost fair and square to SRL fighting the wrong fight. How would Mayweather do against a 122lb Leonard at 130? He'd win. Was Hearns better than Corrales at 160? He lost to Barkley too which is a bad loss because Barkley is a basically at Gatti level or below.

6. Top5 division fighters: COrreales, Hatton, G Hernandez, Castillo, Judah, Delahoya, Baldomir, Manfredy, Chavez, C Hernandez, Gatti, Mitchell - all top5 level and all belt holders, how many top5 level did Whitaker fight?

7. Watch Mayweather-Delahoya again slowly with the sound off. Watch how Delahoya misses nearly everything he throws. To the untrained eye it looks like Delahoya is land but hes not so 9-3 is a very fair card. Despite Mayweather finding it difficult to land at times too he still outlanded Delahoya and landed far cleaner. Giving the fight to Delahoya shows your scoring Delahoya punching air, which isnt the aim of boxing

8. Mosley and Quartey isn't a step up from Hatton/Castillo/Delahoya. Mosley has a poor defense and doesn't throw compact punches. PBF also would find the flurys Mosley throws easy to move out the way of. Mosley's power is vastly overrated too.

Quartey would probably be called a 1 armed fighter by floyd because he relys on the jab so much. Do you think Floyd can't slip a jab and throw a right counter?

Trinidad would lose every round against Floyd, too predictable and not even an infighter

9. You think a dehydrated 130lb Delahoya ahs an easy time with Corrales? You think Delahoya doesn't have problems with a prime Castillo? Even Judahs superior speed and boxing ability would cause Delahoya problems. How do you think a prime Delahoya does against a 34yo Delahoya? The 34yo is smarter, bigger, stronger, with a bigger punch. The 24yo has more stamina but makes more mistakes. The 24yo should win - easily? No
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:53 AM   #74
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
mayweather over de la hoya? funniest thing i have read all day. A old far past his prime rusty Oscar nearly beat floyd mayweather, lets just be thankful for floyds sake that he never had to get in the ring with a late 1990s prime oscar de la hoya.

no way mayweather rates over oscar, not yet.


amazing how underated oscar continues to be. he probably was the most skilled boxer of the 1990s. Even when old and overweight, he has such good boxing skills he can still beat/nearly beat the best young fighters in the weight class.

Oscar was very skilled, but I can't put him anywhere near the top simply because he lost his biggest fights: Mosley twice, Trinidad, Hopkins, Mayweather.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:30 AM   #75
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Default Re: As of right now, do you rate Mayweather above the following fighters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RZA
Pernell Whitaker
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roy Jones Jr.
Oscar De La Hoya
I would only put Whitaker and Jones ahead of him.
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