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Old 07-05-2007, 01:30 PM   #1
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Default 90's Heavyweights

How much smaller, on average, would they be without steroids? Moreover, since we assume perfect steroid testing in hypothetical matchups, how much will they be penalized in speed/strength/size/stamina against the likes of Ali or Frazier?
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

I posted average height and weight of heavyweights by decade, according to boxrec data. Do you want to say that almost every heavyweight that is listed in boxrec database in the 1990's has been using them?
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Senya13
I posted average height and weight of heavyweights by decade, according to boxrec data. Do you want to say that almost every heavyweight that is listed in boxrec database in the 1990's has been using them?
It is likely that a very large proportion of the top contenders were using them, and probably still are--as was the case with many major sports in the 1990's.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
How much smaller, on average, would they be without steroids? Moreover, since we assume perfect steroid testing in hypothetical matchups, how much will they be penalized in speed/strength/size/stamina against the likes of Ali or Frazier?

Steroids has nothing do due with height, but it can certainly add some muscle weight. Since we don't know who the users were besides implications on Morrison and Holyfield, it is best to avoid the question all together. Weight lifting strength does not appear to greatly help power. Some strong fighters can't punch at all. Some weak fighters in a weight room can hit a ton.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
It is likely that a very large proportion of the top contenders were using them, and probably still are--as was the case with many major sports in the 1990's.
Prove it! You can get done for slander even on the internet.

Toney has been found guilty and should be banned for life, ditto anyone else who has their moment in court and is found guilty.

It maybe a painful pill to swallow, but you are innocent until proven guilty.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

The stats included all heavyweights, not just top contenders. Besides, steroids don't make people taller. Average height had increased also.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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It maybe a painful pill to swallow, but you are innocent until proven guilty.
In the legal system. The idea that a ruling forced to comply with the restrictions of an American court of law is somehow the only standard to be considered is ridiculous. Maybe you're one of the dead-ended still proclaiming OJ Simpson's innocence as established in court, but that puts you in a distinct minority.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

steroids do not help any athlete, it does not create skill or talent, it builds up cosmetic, inflated, non-useable muscle. It tends to make them fight in shorter bursts and they burn out faster. Think of Vargas in the De La Hoya fight as a prime example. For some reason I still can't figure out, their chins tend to go. Also their bodies break down much faster when being hit. They become much more injury prone, both in and out of the ring.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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steroids do not help any athlete
Except Ben Johnson, Mark McGwire, Roy Jones Juicer, oh lawdy, do I really need to make this list? You think all of these athletes are taking these drugs for placebo value?
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Steroids has nothing do due with height, but it can certainly add some muscle weight. Since we don't know who the users were besides implications on Morrison and Holyfield, it is best to avoid the question all together. Weight lifting strength does not appear to greatly help power. Some strong fighters can't punch at all. Some weak fighters in a weight room can hit a ton.
When I said "bigger", I was referring to size gained with muscle, not height.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
Prove it! You can get done for slander even on the internet.

Toney has been found guilty and should be banned for life, ditto anyone else who has their moment in court and is found guilty.

It maybe a painful pill to swallow, but you are innocent until proven guilty.
You'll note I didn't name anyone specifically, so I very much doubt the heavyweight division is going to come after me over the internet. I'm referring to the top 10 as an aggregate. If you'll recall, we've had several discussions similar to this in the past, so it's hardly new territory I'm covering.

Now then...consider how many athletes in every sport are using steroids, and then how many get caught. Steroids can be wiped clean from the system before testing can pick them up, and yet we've still had several heavyweights busted for steroids. I doubt that weight training alone can account for some of our recently "blown up" fighters.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
Except Ben Johnson, Mark McGwire, Roy Jones Juicer, oh lawdy, do I really need to make this list? You think all of these athletes are taking these drugs for placebo value?
This has been discussed before. Nobody presented any proof whatsoever that RJJ ever used steroids. Ephedra is not a steroid.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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Nobody presented any proof whatsoever that RJJ ever used steroids.
Well then, allow me to be your nobody!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

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Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
Well then, allow me to be your nobody!

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thats a fake.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: 90's Heavyweights

Where does the assumption the heavyweights were on steroids? As far as I'm aware, designer steroids are relatively new to the market. I'm a pro-wrestling fan, and on most US news channels, they have been interviewing wrestlers, who often use them, and experts. The general consensus is that drugs have become much harder to find post-2000. Probably the last 5years.

If you compared the use of steroids from the Tour De France in the 90's and now, I'm sure more owuld use now. However, a much smaller ratio of users will get found out, because it's easier to mask them.

I'm not saynig 90's boxers didn't use, but I find it hard to believe noe of the top ones were found out.
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