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Old 12-13-2007, 04:31 PM   #31
C. M. Clay II
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeezzard
Max Baer was a clumsy Oaf.No Left Jab,no Left Hook,below average combos,below average foot work,the only thing he had going was the Right Hand,which would'nt land on Tunney.And even if it did Gene could shake it off the same way he shook off Dempseys' Blows.
I agree 100%.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeezzard
Max Baer was a clumsy Oaf.No Left Jab,no Left Hook,below average combos,below average foot work,the only thing he had going was the Right Hand,which would'nt land on Tunney.
It is not that simple.

While Baer was no Sugar Ray he could lay it on prety thick in terms of pressure and often broke down much better boxers.

I tend to agee with your prediction though.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:21 PM   #33
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

It should be said that Baer was supremely confident that he would have beaten Tunney, and divuldged as much whilst explaining why he couldn't have beaten Dempsey - of course, this was before he lost to Braddock.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
wut 200lb + heavyweight did tunney ever take on that was even remotley close to the level and punching abilities of max baer?
ha, still not a fan of Gene?!?!

what under 200lb smart boxer with a good jab, ring movement/science and a smart set of mental capabilities did Max Baer take out?

He is 0-1.

If Loughran could beat him, Tunney could beat him, Especially 1927-8 Gene vs. 1933 Baer.

Only question is whether or not a 36 year old past his prime Gene could do the trick when Baer was actually champ...which I would still bet on Gene taking!
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

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Originally Posted by McGrain
It should be said that Baer was supremely confident that he would have beaten Tunney, and divuldged as much whilst explaining why he couldn't have beaten Dempsey - of course, this was before he lost to Braddock.
He's not going to say he could have beat Dempsey, because Dempsey was his hero, and also an advisor/manager/promoter/friend of his while champ. But I don't think he beats either, not that I have anything against him or don't think on a good night he would be a lot tougher than many give him credit for.

Truth is, he probably stands a slightly better chance of beating Dempsey than Tunney. But, I bet it sold papers!

He was a better actor than Gene or Jack though, from what I read about their acting abilities.
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:21 AM   #36
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

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Originally Posted by BIG DEE
BIG DEE HERE= Baer asked Loughran to teach him how to do that with his left hand to which Loughran replied I`m not going to teach you that as I might have to fight you again. I`m not that stupid.
Actually Loughran did meet with Baer, twice !

"Despite his win, Tommy Loughran showed his admiration for Max's potential. "That left that Max landed on my chin in the ninth had me a bit foggy," Loughran admitted after the fight. "He also had me going in the second round. "I thought I had him at the end of the seventh when I clipped him on the chin with a left hook, but he rallied courageously. Max is the greatest prospect I ever saw. In another year, he should be the equal of any heavyweight in the game. He's a hard puncher, a clean, game fighter and a likeable fellow."

Max was equally envious of that left of Tommy's. In a move that shocked the press and was covered nationwide, Max showed up at Tommy's dressing room after the bout and asked Tommy for a boxing lesson. They met at a coffee shop near the Garden and "to the surprise of their fellow diners, some of whom had been at the fight, Tommy was buying Max lunch." Over sandwiches and java, Tommy discoursed on Max's weak left jab and his habit of telegraphing his punches. After lunch, as patrons gaped like a brace of fish strung on a line, the two boxers strolled out and proceeded to a gymnasium, where the master taught his apt student some tricks of the trade.


Tommy Loughran was a supporter of Baer prior to the Schmeling bout:

In May, 1933, "Two of his staunchest rooters have developed in two former world's champions, Tommy Loughran, Philadelphia light-heavyweight king, and Pete Latzo, the Scranton middleweight, both frequent visitors to his camp. Loughran, who fought Baer two years ago, admits that there is no comparison between the Baer of today and the less experienced

fighter he was then. Admitting that Baer was one of the hardest hitters he ever fought, Loughran also concedes that Baer is even a more devastating puncher today as a result of shortening up on his swings. "Right now he's probably the hardest hitter among the heavyweights," says Tommy. Baer has developed the trait of seriously analyzing himself after each of his daily workouts. He sits down with Mike Cantwell his trainer, and Ancil Hoffman, his manager, and will talk for an hour over what he did. Mentally, he is all fight, and the change to the belting beauty from Livermore is all too obvious to those who know him well."


Grantland Rice wrote in June, 1933, just prior to the Schmeling bout:

"You won't see the Baer who fought Loughran, I suggested, "The Baer that fought Loughran was a young, inexperienced fighter barely more than 20. The Baer who will meet Max Schemling is a different animal-- bigger,stronger, a harder hitter, a better boxer and, what is more important, far more experienced.


Regards,
Cat

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Old 12-14-2007, 01:35 AM   #37
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
He barely got past Kingfish Levinsky!
Which Baer-Levinksy bout are you referring to ?

The 1st in Jan 1932, where Max and King laughed when they hit and laughed when the missed, where Max forced the fight and King's looping rights didn't hurt him ?

The 2nd in July, 1932, when sports editors stated Max showed "skill and endurance" while King "wilted in the heat ?"

Or the 3rd, an exhibition in Dec, 1934, where Max knocked King out ?

Oh ! and Max won all three !!

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Old 12-14-2007, 01:45 AM   #38
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeezzard
Max Baer was a clumsy Oaf.No Left Jab,no Left Hook,below average combos,below average foot work,the only thing he had going was the Right Hand,which would'nt land on Tunney.And even if it did Gene could shake it off the same way he shook off Dempseys' Blows.
You should look beyond the usual 2-3 bouts that everyone uses to discuss Baer failings and read the coverage of his earlier bouts. From 1929-1933, yes Max had the right, but the papers and his rivals mentioned his "gatling gun" left and how he turned his opponents' torso red with his body punches in the clinches

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Old 12-14-2007, 09:34 AM   #39
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxie's Gal
You should look beyond the usual 2-3 bouts that everyone uses to discuss Baer failings and read the coverage of his earlier bouts. From 1929-1933, yes Max had the right, but the papers and his rivals mentioned his "gatling gun" left and how he turned his opponents' torso red with his body punches in the clinches

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Cat
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Jim Braddock and Joe Louis exposed Maxs' short commings.Max had the size and punch to be a great but not the dedication or skills.Porous defence,throwing arm punches,below average foot work,and lacking a consistent Left Jab.Ever see the Galento fight?Gene Tunney would have made Max look amaturish.
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Old 12-14-2007, 02:58 PM   #40
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeezzard
Jim Braddock and Joe Louis exposed Maxs' short commings.Max had the size and punch to be a great but not the dedication or skills.
Louis perhaps but not Braddock. There were a number of factors at play in the Braddock fight. I will say however that Baers decision wins tended to be over sluggers.

Quote:
Ever see the Galento fight? Gene Tunney would have made Max look amaturish.
Not a good example. Gallento wanted to trade with Baer who was happy to reciprocate. It was a grudge match that degenerated into a brawl.

The worst case scenario for Gene is if the Baer of the Schmeling fight shows up. That Baer was a diferent creature who had all his guns firing in a systematic manner.

Last edited by janitor; 12-14-2007 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langford
He's not going to say he could have beat Dempsey, because Dempsey was his hero, and also an advisor/manager/promoter/friend of his while champ. But I don't think he beats either, not that I have anything against him or don't think on a good night he would be a lot tougher than many give him credit for.
Well i'm not insisting upon Max's word as law where this issue is concerned, but I do think the fighter's own perspective is always interesting. And let's not forget that in claiming he would "easily" defeat Tunney, Baer fires a barb at Dempsey, in a way.
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

[quote=janitor][quote]

Quote:
Lo9uis perhaps but not Braddock.
Why not Braddock?He gave Baer a Boxing lesson for 15rds.Louis took it 4 steps further with Power in either fist.



Quote:
Not a good example. Gallento wanted to trade with Baer who was happy to reciprocate.
Again, why not?Baer should have used his "Boxing skills" and Physical advantages against Galento.Instead he chooses to fight Galentos' fight.
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

I'm going to go wity Tunney by schoolage 15.
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Old 12-14-2007, 05:12 PM   #44
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

[quote]
[quote=joeezzard][quote=janitor]
Quote:

Why not Braddock?He gave Baer a Boxing lesson for 15rds.Louis took it 4 steps further with Power in either fist.
Louis was perhaps the greatest heavyweight of all time but Braddock was nothing that Baer hadnt chewed up and spit out on a few previous ocasions, in any department whether it was boxing skill heart or whatever.

Quote:
Again, why not?Baer should have used his "Boxing skills" and Physical advantages against Galento.Instead he chooses to fight Galentos' fight.
Baer rarely used his boxing skills or fought a smart fight.

The only times when Baer performed on all cylinders that I have seen are the Schmeling fight and certain fights late in his career like the Nova and Comiskey bouts when he was declining.

Dont underestimate the focused unleashed Baer though,
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Old 12-14-2007, 06:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Max Baer vs. Gene Tunney 15rds.

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Louis was perhaps the greatest heavyweight of all time but Braddock was nothing that Baer hadnt chewed up and spit out on a few previous ocasions, in any department whether it was boxing skill heart or whatever.



Baer rarely used his boxing skills or fought a smart fight.
That is my point, Janitor.Max should have beaten Braddock easy,but did'nt.Max did'nt have the desire to achieve greatness,Tunney did and was.Tunney was also extremly intelligent and a Master boxer.He woukd have befuddled Baer the same way Loughran did.I rather doubt Max would come close.
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