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Old 09-24-2011, 03:39 PM   #46
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Old 09-24-2011, 03:42 PM   #47
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Pacquiao isn’t jumping the high jump.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:44 PM   #48
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:05 PM   #49
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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It's not your calves providing the power though is it? You can't produce much force with your calves.
He pushes off with the balls of his feet in short explosive bursts instead of turning into it. When I throw leaping hooks, I do the same, so I don't have to be set to hit hard. But it's awkward and ugly and usually wild looking stuff, he's a master at it. For me, yes, sometimes my calves power my punches, never my thighs, and they sometimes look like just "arm punches".

I think this photo shows the manner in which the rear foot provides the power for my left - I don't need to turn but I do need to come forward to hit hard. I used to calf raise 450+ lbs for reps of 12+, I just feel a stability in them that I never feel if I crouch low and try to generate force from the thighs. But it throws me forward and off balance a LOT - when I try to punch hard I sometimes seriously overcommit going forward, Pac never has that problem.

I only want to show you two brief parts of this video, which is otherwise garbage. at 17 seconds in and again at 53 seconds you can see my "calf charges", I decide to push off them and my much bigger opponents can't stand in front of me, they are explosively pushed back. Pac is worlds better than me but he uses his calves as a power base, too.

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Old 09-24-2011, 04:33 PM   #50
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Old 09-24-2011, 09:10 PM   #51
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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He pushes off with the balls of his feet in short explosive bursts instead of turning into it. When I throw leaping hooks, I do the same, so I don't have to be set to hit hard. But it's awkward and ugly and usually wild looking stuff, he's a master at it. For me, yes, sometimes my calves power my punches, never my thighs, and they sometimes look like just "arm punches".

I think this photo shows the manner in which the rear foot provides the power for my left - I don't need to turn but I do need to come forward to hit hard. I used to calf raise 450+ lbs for reps of 12+, I just feel a stability in them that I never feel if I crouch low and try to generate force from the thighs. But it throws me forward and off balance a LOT - when I try to punch hard I sometimes seriously overcommit going forward, Pac never has that problem.

I only want to show you two brief parts of this video, which is otherwise garbage. at 17 seconds in and again at 53 seconds you can see my "calf charges", I decide to push off them and my much bigger opponents can't stand in front of me, they are explosively pushed back. Pac is worlds better than me but he uses his calves as a power base, too.

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When you do that you're not standing straight up and stiff though are you, you're still pushing against the ground and it's not your calves doing the work, it's your thighs and the short sharp recoil of the tendon that's generating the power.
The calves are designed for, as you said, stability. They can handle massive stresses (weight) but they are made up of the predominantly slow twitch Soleus muscle and the half slow and half fast Gastrocnemius muscle. They are for stability and endurance, not power. Try plantar flex your foot quickly and powerfully when you're lying down from a neutral position, do you think that can propel you? You'd need a dorsiflexion countermovement first to get the tendon involved. It's your tendons that are producing your power.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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When you do that you're not standing straight up and stiff though are you, you're still pushing against the ground and it's not your calves doing the work, it's your thighs and the short sharp recoil of the tendon that's generating the power.
The calves are designed for, as you said, stability. They can handle massive stresses (weight) but they are made up of the predominantly slow twitch Soleus muscle and the half slow and half fast Gastrocnemius muscle. They are for stability and endurance, not power. Try plantar flex your foot quickly and powerfully when you're lying down from a neutral position, do you think that can propel you? You'd need a dorsiflexion countermovement first to get the tendon involved. It's your tendons that are producing your power.
the soleus is mostly slow, the gastrocnemius, which is extremely overdeveloped on me, is mostly fast. My thighs in that vid there were only 17 inches, my calves 16.5 and infinitely stronger, I feel that they propelled me forward. When I used to throw front kicks in karate, at the end I would thrust forward with the toe and that was my force - once I knocked my 200 lb sensei back from just the movement of pushing forward with my toe. Yes, its a push, but its all from the calf.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:53 PM   #53
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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the soleus is mostly slow, the gastrocnemius, which is extremely overdeveloped on me, is mostly fast. My thighs in that vid there were only 17 inches, my calves 16.5 and infinitely stronger, I feel that they propelled me forward. When I used to throw front kicks in karate, at the end I would thrust forward with the toe and that was my force - once I knocked my 200 lb sensei back from just the movement of pushing forward with my toe. Yes, its a push, but its all from the calf.
Human anatomy and movement doesn't apply to you, you are Bruce Lee and Jesus rolled into one with a touch of Goku for good measure.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:01 AM   #54
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Human anatomy and movement doesn't apply to you, you are Bruce Lee and Jesus rolled into one with a touch of Goku for good measure.
sounds good man I'm just saying everybody has different body mechanics. I'm just saying I don't plant my feet for power, I jump forward, and I think Pac does the same thing, and I don't jump with my thighs, I push forward with my tiptoes quickly. I don't know why this is such a controversial or touchy subject.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:11 AM   #55
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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sounds good man I'm just saying everybody has different body mechanics. I'm just saying I don't plant my feet for power, I jump forward, and I think Pac does the same thing, and I don't jump with my thighs, I push forward with my tiptoes quickly. I don't know why this is such a controversial or touchy subject.
It is physically impossible to jump with just your calves, you don't seem to understand.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:43 AM   #56
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

Again, it's the hamstrings that are mostly responsible for jumping, calves have very little to do with it.

Stand upright with your knees locked and try to propel yourself in any direction just using plantar flexion. You won't get far.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:40 AM   #57
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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It is physically impossible to jump with just your calves, you don't seem to understand.
Once again as a piss weak "sports science" student....you're an embarrassment. Post a picture of yourself against Aramini you pathetic cunt. Better still meet him in real life.

"oh but my lecturer told me what he is saying is wrong...I'm a sports science student!!!"
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:51 AM   #58
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Once again as a piss weak "sports science" student....you're an embarrassment. Post a picture of yourself against Aramini you pathetic cunt. Better still meet him in real life.

"oh but my lecturer told me what he is saying is wrong...I'm a sports science student!!!"
What aramini is saying is wrong.... I fail to see the point of your post.

Is VIP back or something?

Last edited by viru§™; 09-25-2011 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:21 AM   #59
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Once again as a piss weak "sports science" student....you're an embarrassment. Post a picture of yourself against Aramini you pathetic cunt. Better still meet him in real life.

"oh but my lecturer told me what he is saying is wrong...I'm a sports science student!!!"
What is wrong with you? Did I accidently bone your mother or something?
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:59 AM   #60
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

I'm not saying the hamstrings are not involved in "jumping", but I'm saying those huge calves Pac has ADD TO HIS FORWARD MOMENTUM AND PUNCHING POWER. Are you telling me the calves are incapable of providing ANY forward or upward momentum? What a worthless muscle then. You know how if you stand on your tip toes for a while you get cramps in your calves? They are involved in that "elevation" - they have a muscular purpose. If you bounce quickly back and forth frentically, the inner calves are working for more than stabilization.

Are you denying that someone could push forward by tightening their calves? Everyone says of Pac, he can generate force from very short distances. It's because it's not really the extension of his punch, its his forward body momentum, greatly contributed to by his calves, + his upper body movement. Pac has the most powerful arm punches of all time besides Pryor. Why? His forward momentum adds to his power because of his bizarre body mechanics.

I don't want to argue, but I will continue to believe Pac is propelled by his calves and it is at least a major contributor to his power.

Let's look at Cotto: almost an immobile power puncher with the lead left because he sits down on the punch. Floyd's and Roy's lead left hooks are COMPLETELY different, they leap into it. for sure it's a hamstring impelled motion, but all of Pac's arsenal is aided by his in and out movement and the power of his calves.
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