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Old 09-25-2011, 12:11 PM   #61
TheDuke
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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What is wrong with you? Did I accidently bone your mother or something?
No.

Public apology. I don't like the side of me that reacts like a cunt to what are essentially differences of opinion.

So sorry.

In my opinion, Pacquiao moves into his punches in a way that is unique and in no way orthodox.

He moves his feet in a way that the opponent rarely recognises the distance has been closed. It's to do with one foot being hidden behind the other which also means only one shoulder is visible. From this perspective it's very difficult to see the left coming over the top of the jab. Takes speed to make it work but he has speed.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:18 PM   #62
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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I don't want to argue, but I will continue to believe Pac is propelled by his calves and it is at least a major contributor to his power.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:05 PM   #63
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heh heh. Okay I just got home and put up my camera. I locked my knees COMPLETELY, got on my tip toes, and jumped repeatedly like a stupid bunny. Don't make me upload this video. Probably no more than 3 to 4 inches of height on that, but just from the movement of my achilles tendon and calf I was able to leave the ground with my knees completely locked quite easily.

Can the hamstring be engaged with the knee completely locked out? I will upload this video if I must, but its completely and utterly gay.

As far as hamstring isometric engagement, maybe, but certainly the fully flexed calf is engaged, no?

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Old 09-25-2011, 01:13 PM   #64
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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heh heh. Okay I just got home and put up my camera. I locked my knees COMPLETELY, got on my tip toes, and jumped repeatedly like a stupid bunny. Don't make me upload this video. Probably no more than 3 to 4 inches of height on that, but just from the movement of my achilles tendon and calf I was able to leave the ground with my knees completely locked quite easily.

Can the hamstring be engaged with the knee completely locked out? I will upload this video if I must, but its completely and utterly gay.
Please share
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:49 PM   #65
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:51 PM   #66
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:15 PM   #67
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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How is Cotto so heavy? I see these tales of the tape and wonder what's really going on. I'm assuming the arm measurements are unflexed down by the sides. I guess its the 6 inch wrist on me that signifies no frame weight. Small measurements.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:27 PM   #68
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

is anybody built like Cotto here? what are your dimensions and weight like? I always get a kick out of these tale of the tape things. You see someone like Hearns and wonder how they can be so light, then someone like Cotto and wonder how they can be so heavy.

at 128 lbs my dimensions were

5'8''
reach: 69''
Chest: 38"
Exp: 40"
arm: 13" down by side, 15.25" flexed
forearm: 12"
wrist: 6"
waist: 26" (27" now at 136 lbs)
neck: 15"
Thigh: 17.5" (18.5" now at 136 lbs)
calf: 16.5' (16 now)
fist: 10"
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:38 PM   #69
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

The one below compares leonard and hearns at their first fight. Much bigger guys than these two.
Leonard left, hearns right
Age 25 22
Weight 147 147
Height 5'10 6'1
Reach 74 78
Biceps 15 15
Thigh 21' 20'
Calf 13' 13'
Fist 11' 11 1/2
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:17 PM   #70
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Once again as a piss weak "sports science" student....you're an embarrassment. Post a picture of yourself against Aramini you pathetic cunt. Better still meet him in real life.

"oh but my lecturer told me what he is saying is wrong...I'm a sports science student!!!"
Lol, you should know what lefty and virus are getting at and if you dont then your stupid and have no clue what your talking about, fact. same goes for aramini, the calves make you jump up and down but you cant close range quick with bunny hops can you? seriously are people so stupid on these forums? atleast have enough about you to know when your getting good advice people.. otherwise whats the point of even frequenting these forums? just dont bother.

if your really that impressed by aramini's little vid of some sloppy hand speed from a 8-9 stone guy at best then thats fine but dont expect the rest of us to be.. lol. yes he displays hand speed but its not controlled at all his arms are flailing anywhere and everywhere, being fast is easy, being controlled too is an art.

No idea why your nut hugging him like hes dangerous because look at how he applies it to the ring? hes hardly applying it like pacquiao does, is he? lol, truth be told he looks scrappy, sloppy and slow, smothering his own work and everything, footwork doesnt exsist. not very impressive at all. certainly no reason for me to start listening to him over people who i feel are more qualified to speak about this topic.

I would listen to virus or lefty well before you or aramini because they are activley studying what they are talking about, not just making daft assumptions of how they think the body works and assuming its right because thats how they think it is at this moment in time, wouldnt life be easy if this was the case, but it isnt. seriously no wonder a lot of the boxing training going on is still in the dark ages, this is why, just because you can fight doesnt mean you have what it takes to be a coach. not at all.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:53 PM   #71
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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I'm not saying the hamstrings are not involved in "jumping", but I'm saying those huge calves Pac has ADD TO HIS FORWARD MOMENTUM AND PUNCHING POWER. Are you telling me the calves are incapable of providing ANY forward or upward momentum? What a worthless muscle then. You know how if you stand on your tip toes for a while you get cramps in your calves? They are involved in that "elevation" - they have a muscular purpose. If you bounce quickly back and forth frentically, the inner calves are working for more than stabilization.

Are you denying that someone could push forward by tightening their calves? Everyone says of Pac, he can generate force from very short distances. It's because it's not really the extension of his punch, its his forward body momentum, greatly contributed to by his calves, + his upper body movement. Pac has the most powerful arm punches of all time besides Pryor. Why? His forward momentum adds to his power because of his bizarre body mechanics.

I don't want to argue, but I will continue to believe Pac is propelled by his calves and it is at least a major contributor to his power.

Let's look at Cotto: almost an immobile power puncher with the lead left because he sits down on the punch. Floyd's and Roy's lead left hooks are COMPLETELY different, they leap into it. for sure it's a hamstring impelled motion, but all of Pac's arsenal is aided by his in and out movement and the power of his calves.
Yes your calves contribute to the power but their contribution is miniscule compared to the hamstrings and tendons. Your calves are for endurance, that's the way humans have evolved. You can't get off the ground without your tendons recoiling. Your examples of fighters are stupid because there are so many different factors to account for.
Every human being has essentially the same body mechanics for the same movements, limb length plays a far bigger difference in minor variations than proportion of muscle strength or size does.
Do you understand how slow and weak you'd be without tendons?
Pacquiao has short legs and his calves are like that because of his genetics, lots of Asian people have bulky looking calves like that because they're small with short legs. You're small as well aren't you? Doesn't mean your calves are doing anymore work or they're stronger than a taller skinny persons calves, you just have a more compact body. Being small makes your punches short because you don't have as much distance to cover or work to perform. If you look at Pacquiao fights when he was fighting in weight divisions where he wasn't shorter than everyone he didn't look as compact. Against larger fighters he does, while he takes advantage of his edge in mobility.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:01 AM   #72
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Originally Posted by aramini View Post
heh heh. Okay I just got home and put up my camera. I locked my knees COMPLETELY, got on my tip toes, and jumped repeatedly like a stupid bunny. Don't make me upload this video. Probably no more than 3 to 4 inches of height on that, but just from the movement of my achilles tendon and calf I was able to leave the ground with my knees completely locked quite easily.

Can the hamstring be engaged with the knee completely locked out? I will upload this video if I must, but its completely and utterly gay.

As far as hamstring isometric engagement, maybe, but certainly the fully flexed calf is engaged, no?
Yes.. your TENDON. You can't bounce around without a countermovement. Even if you start on your tip toes you're going to need a quick dip before you can go anywhere. Your muscles are doing **** all. Do you really think your calf muscles are going to be able to propel your body forwards for a powerful punch? Just think about it, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I don't expect you to listen as you always like to pass off your uninformed subjective opinion as fact on here. What I am telling you here is an objective human movement fact. Try and get that through your head.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:02 AM   #73
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Lol, you should know what lefty and virus are getting at and if you dont then your stupid and have no clue what your talking about, fact. same goes for aramini, the calves make you jump up and down but you cant close range quick with bunny hops can you? seriously are people so stupid on these forums? atleast have enough about you to know when your getting good advice people.. otherwise whats the point of even frequenting these forums? just dont bother.

if your really that impressed by aramini's little vid of some sloppy hand speed from a 8-9 stone guy at best then thats fine but dont expect the rest of us to be.. lol. yes he displays hand speed but its not controlled at all his arms are flailing anywhere and everywhere, being fast is easy, being controlled too is an art.

No idea why your nut hugging him like hes dangerous because look at how he applies it to the ring? hes hardly applying it like pacquiao does, is he? lol, truth be told he looks scrappy, sloppy and slow, smothering his own work and everything, footwork doesnt exsist. not very impressive at all. certainly no reason for me to start listening to him over people who i feel are more qualified to speak about this topic.

I would listen to virus or lefty well before you or aramini because they are activley studying what they are talking about, not just making daft assumptions of how they think the body works and assuming its right because thats how they think it is at this moment in time, wouldnt life be easy if this was the case, but it isnt. seriously no wonder a lot of the boxing training going on is still in the dark ages, this is why, just because you can fight doesnt mean you have what it takes to be a coach. not at all.
Yes, scrappy and sloppy, but I'm really not that slow, even if I smother my own work. I'm not talking about bunny hops, just pushing forward hard off the back foot. The whole thing is moot anyway.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:05 AM   #74
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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Yes.. your TENDON. You can't bounce around without a countermovement. Even if you start on your tip toes you're going to need a quick dip before you can go anywhere. Your muscles are doing **** all. Do you really think your calf muscles are going to be able to propel your body forwards for a powerful punch? Just think about it, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I don't expect you to listen as you always like to pass off your uninformed subjective opinion as fact on here. What I am telling you here is an objective human movement fact. Try and get that through your head.
Yeah, okay. I'm only saying with the lead foot planted, the rear leg bent, the rear calf/tendon can be engaged to push forward. Something makes Manny capable of generating enormous power at short range.

{Why are you guys so hostile?}
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:10 AM   #75
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Default Re: Pacquiao's "unorthodox" moves

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How is Cotto so heavy? I see these tales of the tape and wonder what's really going on. I'm assuming the arm measurements are unflexed down by the sides. I guess its the 6 inch wrist on me that signifies no frame weight. Small measurements.
Do you know what these tales of the tape signify? Sweet **** all. People have differently proportioned bodies. You have an obsession with muscles, I've noticed over the years that uneducated people who watch sports seem to read alot into muscle size and proportion. In reality it means **** all to performance. If you like to read into tale of the tapes and relate it to you in some way then go ahead, the only difference it makes to anything in reality is that you're nurturing your narcissistic side which is already obviously well developed in you.
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