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Old 10-03-2011, 05:54 PM   #61
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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Originally Posted by SweetHome_Bama View Post
You can give Marciano every intangiable in the world, his small reach, small size, and slowness compared to Ali would have him being beaten 10 out of 10 times. Rocky Marciano is not on Ali's level.

According to the ****ing man himself um yes he was, and if you watch the whole of that heavyweight film that bit was shown from, you would see him rip Dempsey a new one, and be nasty as **** about other guys on there, but the very moment rocky is mentioned, he changes and becomes humble, such was the power of a man like marciano to change peoples views on him, imo and obviously a very sincere ali your wrong very wrong
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:56 PM   #62
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

Ali was also very high on Tunney and Jackson suprisingly..
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:58 PM   #63
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

I appreciate Muhammad Ali's opinion, but I disagree.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:02 PM   #64
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

Why compare a fighter he loathes and hates and fought to a fighter he never even had sparred with?

Is he downgrading Frazier afterall these years? Why not compare him to Sonny Liston, or Larry Holmes, or other fighters he fouhgt too?
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:36 PM   #65
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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According to the ****ing man himself um yes he was, and if you watch the whole of that heavyweight film that bit was shown from, you would see him rip Dempsey a new one, and be nasty as **** about other guys on there, but the very moment rocky is mentioned, he changes and becomes humble, such was the power of a man like marciano to change peoples views on him, imo and obviously a very sincere ali your wrong very wrong
Like I said that was nothing more than a superficial nice comment about Rocky and a subtle dig at Joe Frazier.

Those two still hate each other.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:06 PM   #66
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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I hate white people. But I love when they send me my check every month ahh welfare and koolaid
seriously dude?
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:33 PM   #67
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

Aslutely right! Marciano is a lot better than Frazier.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:24 AM   #68
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

Frazier > Marciano
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:24 AM   #69
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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Originally Posted by SweetHome_Bama View Post
You can give Marciano every intangiable in the world, his small reach, small size, and slowness compared to Ali would have him being beaten 10 out of 10 times. Rocky Marciano is not on Ali's level.
His small reach and small size works in favor of his fighting style. The smaller you are, the harder it is to hit you, especially when you fight tall like Ali does. This is why Ali and Dundee were surprised by how hard it was to hit him, YES HARD, to hit Marciano even at his advanced age. That slowness is deceptive. He looks easy to hit, but he isn't. And even if you rip his face open, he still won't stop. Even when Rocky was an old man, Ali considers Marciano's power to be very hard just playing around with him.

This is not about intangibles. This is about the fighting styles and the physical dimensions of the combatants. Ali knew the shortcomings he had. And he knew the problems he faced if Marciano ever became his opponent. Marciano's size fit his style very well.

Again, this is Ali. He doesn't like guys like Dempsey. He gives a lot of respect to Rocky. Heck, even Frazier gives his respect to Rocky a lot. Frazier wasn't the super fastest guy like Ali was and he presented even a bigger target to Ali, BUT he showed that by careful application of pressure, you can get to Ali. You just had to have the guts to get there. The fact that Rocky is smaller makes his job easier especially if he gets inside against Ali.

Rocky winning 1 out of 3 is not hard to imagine based on styles and size, considering even Ali's own experiences with the old man version of Marciano. I'm not saying Rocky is a sure win 10/10, but style-wise and with him having the great equalizer, as well as Ali's own descriptions of the old man he met, it's a statistical probability that Rocky would win at the very least 30 percent at most of any matches they fought.
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:30 PM   #70
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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Marciano was a pressure fighter with a big heart. Ali hated those. Yes Marciano was better than Frazier, but i dont think he could have beaten prime Ali 2 out of 3 times
tough thing to prove or assume when Marciano never lost a fight in his
waltz with he pros.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:41 PM   #71
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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Originally Posted by SweetHome_Bama View Post
Can anyone tell me how a 5'11', 185 llb fighter, with a 67 inch reach is going to handle Ali who was 6'2'', 220 llbs with a 80 inch reach, who was mobile as hell, had a granite chin, and technically superior?
If Ali actually weighed 220lbs Marciano would problem win.

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Originally Posted by SweetHome_Bama View Post
Joe Louis gave Marciano some fits with his boxing ability when he fought him and was shot to hell. No way in hell Marciano poses a problem to Ali or Fraiser.
Fits?

He picked up a few rounds before being knocked out cold.

Winning rounds against Marciano isn't easy work. Lasting the marathon and WINNING against the Rock is another story altogether.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:48 PM   #72
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

I'm a diehard Marciano fan but peak for peak Ali outboxes him. Frazier's style is more suited against Ali than Marciano because Frazier puts on a faster pace of pressure. That's not to say he's more relentless, it's just that Frazier's speed of pressure is greater and thus forces Ali to fight off the ropes more often. For example, I also think Frazier style is more suited than Ali than Tyson. Tyson has explosion, but not quite the relentless, sustained pressure that Frazier has. Frazier is sort of the balance between Tyson & Marciano. He's got the speed of pressure and volume of punching. Marciano would did far better against the more stationary and stronger targets like Liston than Frazier would in my opinion. Just to outline their differences. In a fight H2H I'd pick Marciano to beat Frazier. Better two fisted power, more durable, better stamina, smaller target.

Look at the Frazier vs Bonavena fights to see how Frazier does with an awkward powerful kind of style. Bonavena doesn't really have the skills so he plays counter puncher to Frazier in their second bout. But Marciano was infinitely greater than Bonavena.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:02 PM   #73
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

so this was said before he fought Frazier or during the era he fought them? It was probably a way to anger Frazier. If he said in recent times he means it..
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:05 PM   #74
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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so this was said before he fought Frazier or during the era he fought them? It was probably a way to anger Frazier. If he said in recent times he means it..
1977, after the Frazier fights.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:05 PM   #75
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Default Re: Ali: "Marciano better than Frazier"

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His small reach and small size works in favor of his fighting style. The smaller you are, the harder it is to hit you, especially when you fight tall like Ali does. This is why Ali and Dundee were surprised by how hard it was to hit him, YES HARD, to hit Marciano even at his advanced age. That slowness is deceptive. He looks easy to hit, but he isn't. And even if you rip his face open, he still won't stop. Even when Rocky was an old man, Ali considers Marciano's power to be very hard just playing around with him.

This is not about intangibles. This is about the fighting styles and the physical dimensions of the combatants. Ali knew the shortcomings he had. And he knew the problems he faced if Marciano ever became his opponent. Marciano's size fit his style very well.

Again, this is Ali. He doesn't like guys like Dempsey. He gives a lot of respect to Rocky. Heck, even Frazier gives his respect to Rocky a lot. Frazier wasn't the super fastest guy like Ali was and he presented even a bigger target to Ali, BUT he showed that by careful application of pressure, you can get to Ali. You just had to have the guts to get there. The fact that Rocky is smaller makes his job easier especially if he gets inside against Ali.

Rocky winning 1 out of 3 is not hard to imagine based on styles and size, considering even Ali's own experiences with the old man version of Marciano. I'm not saying Rocky is a sure win 10/10, but style-wise and with him having the great equalizer, as well as Ali's own descriptions of the old man he met, it's a statistical probability that Rocky would win at the very least 30 percent at most of any matches they fought.
No short height, weight, and reach don't work in his favor especially against Ali or Fraizer.

Marciano has under rated defense but he wouldn't be hard to hit for Ali or Fraizer, Ali had to luxury of catching him coming in from a distance Marciano couldn't counter from and if he wanted he could just dance around him the whole fight. Fraizer might be at a disadvantage on the inside slightly because of the shorter arms and all, but his speed and strength and being physically bigger would have a huge effect on Marciano when Joe did land.

It is about tangibles and fighting styles and against Frazier and Ali Marciano would be found greatly lacking.

Ali and Joe win 10 out 10, there is no shot for Marciano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
If Ali actually weighed 220lbs Marciano would problem win.



Fits?

He picked up a few rounds before being knocked out cold.

Winning rounds against Marciano isn't easy work. Lasting the marathon and WINNING against the Rock is another story altogether.
Why would he lose at 220? He showed he could fight at that weight.

A shot Joe Louis shouldn't be able to win any rounds.
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