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Old 10-03-2011, 05:05 PM   #16
viru§™
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
Quit trying to derail the thread. Everyone will see you for what I know you are.
I think everybody has seen what you are from your last last few posts.

I'm done.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:08 PM   #17
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I think everybody has seen what you are from your last last few posts.

I'm done.
You don’t even have the decency to answer the OP. Pathetic.

And you accuse me of derailing.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Basically functional strength, but also with a very lean and cut body.. I was trying to combine arms with chest and back, so that I could free up my thursdays for shoulders... Maybe what I'll do instead is do legs and shoulders on Wednesday combined, while continuing to do biceps and triceps on thursdays, and just reserve mondays for chest and tuesdays for back, like I've been doing.. What are your thoughts on this?
Then **** all that bullshit. To get strong, you don't have to worry about bodyparts or any of that stuff.
Squat day, bench day, deadlift day, squat and accessory day. On sq, bench, deadlift days do those exercises, 5x5, then do 1-2 accessory movements, leg press, dumbell rows, and good mornings respectively on those 3 days for example.
Accessory day you do all the of the fluff exercises not related to the other 3 lifts. Biceps, calves, etc. You can do your overhead pressing here. Keep things heavy and free weight, barbell preferably. If you train hard on all 4 of these days, you will see great gains and you will not be concerned with doing chest with biceps or boobs with moobs, nor will it matter as your goal is to get STRONG, which doesn't involve splitting your body up into small groups. Chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders are very small muscles in your body, they are disproportionately trained by most people because you look at them in the mirror, but that doesn't mean they get any bigger or stronger because you see them and train them more than the big important muscles in your body.
For the lean body, diet cleanly and do some cardio. Simple!
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Then **** all that bullshit. To get strong, you don't have to worry about bodyparts or any of that stuff.
Squat day, bench day, deadlift day, squat and accessory day. On sq, bench, deadlift days do those exercises, 5x5, then do 1-2 accessory movements, leg press, dumbell rows, and good mornings respectively on those 3 days for example.
Accessory day you do all the of the fluff exercises not related to the other 3 lifts. Biceps, calves, etc. You can do your overhead pressing here. Keep things heavy and free weight, barbell preferably. If you train hard on all 4 of these days, you will see great gains and you will not be concerned with doing chest with biceps or boobs with moobs, nor will it matter as your goal is to get STRONG, which doesn't involve splitting your body up into small groups. Chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders are very small muscles in your body, they are disproportionately trained by most people because you look at them in the mirror, but that doesn't mean they get any bigger or stronger because you see them and train them more than the big important muscles in your body.
For the lean body, diet cleanly and do some cardio. Simple!
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by MrSmall View Post
Then **** all that bullshit. To get strong, you don't have to worry about bodyparts or any of that stuff.
Squat day, bench day, deadlift day, squat and accessory day. On sq, bench, deadlift days do those exercises, 5x5, then do 1-2 accessory movements, leg press, dumbell rows, and good mornings respectively on those 3 days for example.
Accessory day you do all the of the fluff exercises not related to the other 3 lifts. Biceps, calves, etc. You can do your overhead pressing here. Keep things heavy and free weight, barbell preferably. If you train hard on all 4 of these days, you will see great gains and you will not be concerned with doing chest with biceps or boobs with moobs, nor will it matter as your goal is to get STRONG, which doesn't involve splitting your body up into small groups. Chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders are very small muscles in your body, they are disproportionately trained by most people because you look at them in the mirror, but that doesn't mean they get any bigger or stronger because you see them and train them more than the big important muscles in your body.
For the lean body, diet cleanly and do some cardio. Simple!
Thanks a lot.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: Question about lifting

Awesome post from MrSmall.

Do you suggest doing plyos on accessory days?

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Originally Posted by MrSmall View Post
Then **** all that bullshit. To get strong, you don't have to worry about bodyparts or any of that stuff.
Squat day, bench day, deadlift day, squat and accessory day. On sq, bench, deadlift days do those exercises, 5x5, then do 1-2 accessory movements, leg press, dumbell rows, and good mornings respectively on those 3 days for example.
Accessory day you do all the of the fluff exercises not related to the other 3 lifts. Biceps, calves, etc. You can do your overhead pressing here. Keep things heavy and free weight, barbell preferably. If you train hard on all 4 of these days, you will see great gains and you will not be concerned with doing chest with biceps or boobs with moobs, nor will it matter as your goal is to get STRONG, which doesn't involve splitting your body up into small groups. Chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders are very small muscles in your body, they are disproportionately trained by most people because you look at them in the mirror, but that doesn't mean they get any bigger or stronger because you see them and train them more than the big important muscles in your body.
For the lean body, diet cleanly and do some cardio. Simple!
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:14 AM   #22
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by democritus2k View Post
Awesome post from MrSmall.

Do you suggest doing plyos on accessory days?
You can do plyos whenever you like, at the start of any session. Jumps for lower body days, plyo pushups on bench day, some throws on accessory day, as examples.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:11 AM   #23
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by MrSmall View Post
Then **** all that bullshit. To get strong, you don't have to worry about bodyparts or any of that stuff.
Squat day, bench day, deadlift day, squat and accessory day. On sq, bench, deadlift days do those exercises, 5x5, then do 1-2 accessory movements, leg press, dumbell rows, and good mornings respectively on those 3 days for example.
Accessory day you do all the of the fluff exercises not related to the other 3 lifts. Biceps, calves, etc. You can do your overhead pressing here. Keep things heavy and free weight, barbell preferably. If you train hard on all 4 of these days, you will see great gains and you will not be concerned with doing chest with biceps or boobs with moobs, nor will it matter as your goal is to get STRONG, which doesn't involve splitting your body up into small groups. Chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders are very small muscles in your body, they are disproportionately trained by most people because you look at them in the mirror, but that doesn't mean they get any bigger or stronger because you see them and train them more than the big important muscles in your body.
For the lean body, diet cleanly and do some cardio. Simple!

Mr small iv been doing these exercises, but on one day as im doing conditioning ect on other days and trying to do an "explosive" weight training day.

For example yesterday was strength was 5x5

Bench
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Squat
Standing Cable row
Weighted Chin Ups

Im trying to get technique as much as possible and increasing weight slowly but surely.

But by the sounds of what your saying you would split them up to different days?

If that is more beneficial could i do for example bench press + a conditioning session afterwards?

I find it easily manageable in one go once a week but if theres a better , more benificial way im all for it! Bearing in mind conditioning and fitness is my bread and butter but i want to start really improving my max strength!!

Thanks
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by Johnboy2007 View Post

For example yesterday was strength was 5x5

Bench
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Squat
Standing Cable row
Weighted Chin Ups


That looks like a lot of work for one session.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:42 AM   #25
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That looks like a lot of work for one session.
you could be right mate, iv been heavily into the conditioning fitness side of things for a good few years, but i might as well be a novice when it comes to max strength training but im trying to learn as much as possible. But to be honest as important as it is conditioning will always be my bread and butter.

So i only dedicate one day a week to it. Iv found it manageable so far as i said but probably compared to you guys im not lifting very heavy so as i improve maybe i need to look into organizing it better.

Id be happy doing one or two of the exercises on seperate days however i would have to then go straight into a conditioning session after due to work and time restraints.

As a very rough guide my week looks like this

Monday Max Strength
Tuesday Boxing (or conditioning)
Weds Intervals
Thursday Boxing
Friday Circuit Training
Saturday Conditioning of some sorts

The days sometimes change depending on shifts and weather i can make boxing ect so its flexible

I must admit i do like having the max strength on one day and getting it out the way on the first or second day when im fresh. But that doesnt mean its the right way to do it!
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:49 AM   #26
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Smalls will sort your routine out, mate. I'm not good with advice on this sort of thing, I barely know what I'm doing myself. Best of luck
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:52 AM   #27
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Smalls will sort your routine out, mate. I'm not good with advice on this sort of thing, I barely know what I'm doing myself. Best of luck
No thats kool mate cheers for your help, more the merrier
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by MrSmall View Post
Then **** all that bullshit. To get strong, you don't have to worry about bodyparts or any of that stuff.
Squat day, bench day, deadlift day, squat and accessory day. On sq, bench, deadlift days do those exercises, 5x5, then do 1-2 accessory movements, leg press, dumbell rows, and good mornings respectively on those 3 days for example.
Accessory day you do all the of the fluff exercises not related to the other 3 lifts. Biceps, calves, etc. You can do your overhead pressing here. Keep things heavy and free weight, barbell preferably. If you train hard on all 4 of these days, you will see great gains and you will not be concerned with doing chest with biceps or boobs with moobs, nor will it matter as your goal is to get STRONG, which doesn't involve splitting your body up into small groups. Chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders are very small muscles in your body, they are disproportionately trained by most people because you look at them in the mirror, but that doesn't mean they get any bigger or stronger because you see them and train them more than the big important muscles in your body.
For the lean body, diet cleanly and do some cardio. Simple!
I like you Smalls but I got to agree to disagree. And its not that your wrong. Its that the kids I train are human young and stupid. When I've tried to run 4 days splits with accessory days when I take out all the kids logs and and you really break them down its the accessory days that are constantly falling out. They are losing an accessory day about once every two weeks sometimes more. And they dont push themselves as hard during those days. Its like the nature of the day implies that its not important. If I gave my kids your above speech it would just further reinforce that the accessory day isn't that important and things would be even worse. If the kids going to miss a day or take it easy it will be that one. You dont see the improvement in the numbers on their close grip bench and barbell curl that you do on other lifts.

Yeah I used accessory days as a player and still do but I was a ****ing madman. I lifted twice a day every other day. And even then I'd often be working in an accessory day because life had forced me to miss it. If I had to give a workout it would most often be the accessory workout But I would make it up since I could do it alone. Dealing with human kids I had to say to myself, 'In a perfect world the accessory day would be hit as often and as hard as everything else but it just isn't'. Its missed more often than any other day and it isn't approached with the same mentality. Now I've got kids failing at lockout when they should explode through the lockout. No I've got to throw everything back remedial as I take the kids who are falling behind and have them do more close grip to bring their triceps back up to par with their chests. Instead of having clean progressive program you end up yo-yo-ing between week points.

Last edited by Windigo; 10-04-2011 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
I like you Smalls but I got to agree to disagree. And its not that your wrong. Its that the kids I train are human young and stupid. When I've tried to run 4 days splits with accessory days when I take out all the kids logs and and you really break them down its the accessory days that are constantly falling out. They are losing an accessory day about once every two weeks sometimes more. And they dont push themselves as hard during those days. Its like the nature of the day implies that its not important. If I gave my kids your above speech it would just further reinforce that the accessory day isn't that important and things would be even worse. If the kids going to miss a day or take it easy it will be that one. You dont see the improvement in the numbers on their close grip bench and barbell curl that you do on other lifts.

Yeah I used accessory days as a player and still do but I was a ****ing madman. I lifted twice a day every other day. Dealing with human kids I had to say to myself, 'In a perfect world the accessory day would be hit as often and as hard as everything else but it just isn't'. Its missed more often than any other day and it isn't approached with the same mentality. Now I've got kids failing at lockout when they should explode through the lockout. No I've got to throw everything back remedial as I take the kids who are falling behind and have them do more close grip to bring their triceps back up to par with their chests. Instead of havinga clean progressive program you end up yo-yo-ing between week points.


How many other species do you train with?
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:11 AM   #30
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Default Re: Question about lifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnboy2007 View Post
Mr small iv been doing these exercises, but on one day as im doing conditioning ect on other days and trying to do an "explosive" weight training day.

For example yesterday was strength was 5x5

Bench
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Squat
Standing Cable row
Weighted Chin Ups

Im trying to get technique as much as possible and increasing weight slowly but surely.

But by the sounds of what your saying you would split them up to different days?

If that is more beneficial could i do for example bench press + a conditioning session afterwards?

I find it easily manageable in one go once a week but if theres a better , more benificial way im all for it! Bearing in mind conditioning and fitness is my bread and butter but i want to start really improving my max strength!!

Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakim View Post
That looks like a lot of work for one session.
Instantly I would have bashed Rakim for being a lazy sod, but in fairness there is a bit of unnecessary juice in there.

First off as a beginner, don't worry about an "explosive" day and a "max" day, you are too slow and weak to do an explosive day, and too weak and technically poor to do a proper max day! So don't worry about that.
If conditioning and fitness is your mainstay and you want your strength training to complement it, then just do:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnboy2007 View Post

Monday Strength
Tuesday Boxing (or conditioning)
Weds Intervals
Thursday Boxing
Friday Strength followed by Circuit Training
Saturday Conditioning of some sorts
Strength day, slowly increasing weight and keeping your technique right:
Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 5x5
Barbell row, or pullups, or dumbell rows 5x6-8

Day 2
Squat 3x5
Deadlift or stiff leg deadlift 5x5
Overhead press of some kind 5x5

that's all you really need. For the squat follow your 5x5 progression but just do 3 sets. for the bench, as you were. rows/pullups don't need progression as such, but good for strengthening these areas so go up to a moderately challenging weight (you could do 10-12 as an all out effort) and do 5 sets of 6-8 reps. Overhead press, as the bench, similar progression, good tech. The deadlift, its a tough one, as you probably don't need it, but its good to have some back work in there, so don't go crazy on this one. Probably good to start light but jump in the deep end, i.e get started on your routine in full, lighter weights but allthe sets and reps, and all the rest of your training for that week, and force yourself to build that work capacity. Then in 2-3 weeks you shouldn't be getting gravely sore as you would have been, and you can start building it up steadily. Soreness doesn't mean you can't do the lifts, but it might inhibit your conditioning exercises a little, or to the point that you can't really do them (e.g trying to sprint after your first ever proper sprint day, you'll be too sore, but in 2-3 weeks you should be fine).
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