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Old 10-04-2011, 11:14 AM   #31
MrSmall
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Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
I like you Smalls but I got to agree to disagree. And its not that your wrong. Its that the kids I train are human young and stupid. When I've tried to run 4 days splits with accessory days when I take out all the kids logs and and you really break them down its the accessory days that are constantly falling out. They are losing an accessory day about once every two weeks sometimes more. And they dont push themselves as hard during those days. Its like the nature of the day implies that its not important. If I gave my kids you above speech it would just further reinforce that the accessory day isn't that important and things would be even worse. If the kids going to miss a day or take it easy it will be that one. You dont see the improvement in the numbers on their close grip bench and barbell curl that you do on other lifts.

I had to say to myself, 'In a perfect world the accessory day would be hit as often and as hard as everything else but it just isn't'. Its missed more often than any other day and it isn't approached with the same mentality. Now I've got kids failing at lockout when they should explode through the lockout. No I've got to throw everything back remedial as I take the kids who are falling behind and have them do more close grip to bring their triceps back up to par with their chests. Instead of havinga clean progressive program you end up yo-yo-ing between week points.
for the guy in question, he WANTED to do other stuff, so I lumped it into a day where he can do what he WANTS to do, and so I would imagine he would stick with it. On the flip side, at his level, it isn't as important, so its a win-win if he misses it. I assume he's not a kid, he's old enough to realise that he gets what he puts into it, so if he skips a day, me or you don't suffer! Thanks for the post. I can see the difficulty in training kids of that age where their minds just aren't right or focused yet, must be a whole new ballgame. I'm lucky in that the people I train are quite trainable.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:31 AM   #32
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for the guy in question, he WANTED to do other stuff, so I lumped it into a day where he can do what he WANTS to do, and so I would imagine he would stick with it. On the flip side, at his level, it isn't as important, so its a win-win if he misses it. I assume he's not a kid, he's old enough to realise that he gets what he puts into it, so if he skips a day, me or you don't suffer! Thanks for the post. I can see the difficulty in training kids of that age where their minds just aren't right or focused yet, must be a whole new ballgame. I'm lucky in that the people I train are quite trainable.

Thanks for the perspective Mr. Smalls.

Right now I am sort of in a body building phase, but go back and forth between hitting one muscle group per day for several months, then go to split routines where I have total body workouts maybe three days a week and do cardio and small groups in between.... I like to include plyos, sprints, and occasionally some medicine ball stuff in my more functional workouts.. I actually used to be a trainer, but that was years ago..

I like to compare notes and always try new stuff.. Can you please type a hypothetical schedule of what my days should look like, with specific exercises and sets based on what you said earlier in the thread? You can be genaric if you want to. Thanks.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:43 AM   #33
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Thanks for the perspective Mr. Smalls.

Right now I am sort of in a body building phase, but go back and forth between hitting one muscle group per day for several months, then go to split routines where I have total body workouts maybe three days a week and do cardio and small groups in between.... I like to include plyos, sprints, and occasionally some medicine ball stuff in my more functional workouts.. I actually used to be a trainer, but that was years ago..

I like to compare notes and always try new stuff.. Can you please type a hypothetical schedule of what my days should look like, with specific exercises and sets based on what you said earlier in the thread? You can be genaric if you want to. Thanks.
monday tuesday thursday friday, in the order I said!
bodybuilding is fine, just don't be afraid about PRIORITISING what you want to do. you want to get bigger then do something like:

military press 5x5
DB press 4x10
Side/rear lateral superset 4x10
Barbell curls 4x10

deadlift 5x5
barbell row 4x10
pullups/chinups 4x10
good morning 4x10
hanging leg raises 4x10

bench press 5x5
dips 4x10
pushups 5 x to failure
tricep pushdowns 4x10

Squat 5x5
Leg press 4x10
Leg curl 4x10
Leg extension 4x10
Ab exercise 4x10
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:12 PM   #34
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by MrSmall View Post
monday tuesday thursday friday, in the order I said!
bodybuilding is fine, just don't be afraid about PRIORITISING what you want to do. you want to get bigger then do something like:

military press 5x5
DB press 4x10
Side/rear lateral superset 4x10
Barbell curls 4x10

deadlift 5x5
barbell row 4x10
pullups/chinups 4x10
good morning 4x10
hanging leg raises 4x10

bench press 5x5
dips 4x10
pushups 5 x to failure
tricep pushdowns 4x10

Squat 5x5
Leg press 4x10
Leg curl 4x10
Leg extension 4x10
Ab exercise 4x10

Good stuff.. Thanks
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:53 PM   #35
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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Originally Posted by MrSmall View Post
Squat 5x5
Leg press 4x10
Leg curl 4x10
Leg extension 4x10
Ab exercise 4x10


I've got no real interest in gaining size, but I still don't understand how this works. 25 reps on squats, 40 on leg press, and 40 on leg extension. That's 105 reps hitting the quads in just one session, surely that's at the really high end of the endurance scale, rather than the optimum amount for gaining size? I'd always thought the rep range between 15-30 was for strength, and 31-50 was size (generally speaking).

I'm probably completely wrong or missing something, but I'm still confused.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:12 PM   #36
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25 reps on squats, 40 on leg press, and 40 on leg extension. That's 105 reps hitting the quads in just one session, surely that's at the really high end of the endurance scale, rather than the optimum amount for gaining size? I'd always thought the rep range between 15-30 was for strength, and 31-50 was size (generally speaking).

.
The Quads are not the PRIME movers of all of those exercises though.. Sqauts for example ( when done properly ) are powered largely by the Glutes, Hamstrings and to a lesser extent, even part of the upper body.. The quads are definitely getting some work, but aren't taking the brunt of it... Incidentally, I am not a huge proponent of leg extensions for quads... Very bad for the patella tenden. I prefer using the hack squat machine, which is sort of an upright positioned leg press.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:23 PM   #37
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The Quads are not the PRIME movers of all of those exercises though.. Sqauts for example ( when done properly ) are powered largely by the Glutes, Hamstrings and to a lesser extent, even part of the upper body.. The quads are definitely getting some work, but aren't taking the brunt of it... Incidentally, I am not a huge proponent of leg extensions for quads... Very bad for the patella tenden. I prefer using the hack squat machine, which is sort of an upright positioned leg press.


Even as secondary muscles, they seem to be getting hit ****ing hard for lots of reps. Maybe that's the idea, I don't know.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:26 PM   #38
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Even as secondary muscles, they seem to be getting hit ****ing hard for lots of reps. Maybe that's the idea, I don't know.
For the most part it pretty safe.. This program is actually designed to hit multiple areas, but if you look at body builder regiments, they place a lot more emphasis on one group in a single session...
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: Question about lifting

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I've got no real interest in gaining size, but I still don't understand how this works. 25 reps on squats, 40 on leg press, and 40 on leg extension. That's 105 reps hitting the quads in just one session, surely that's at the really high end of the endurance scale, rather than the optimum amount for gaining size? I'd always thought the rep range between 15-30 was for strength, and 31-50 was size (generally speaking).

I'm probably completely wrong or missing something, but I'm still confused.
leg press and ESPECIALLY squats isn't really "quads", leg extensions are but they are counteracted by the leg curls.
If you count up the total reps of every set you do in a workout they will all be on the :"endurance scale", what does that mean? Not a lot! sets of 10 will help with hypertrophy, which he is after.
31-50 and 15-30? So if I did 30 one day its for strength, 31 the next its for size? where did you read that? misinformed my friend!
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:56 PM   #40
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The Quads are not the PRIME movers of all of those exercises though.. Sqauts for example ( when done properly ) are powered largely by the Glutes, Hamstrings and to a lesser extent, even part of the upper body.. The quads are definitely getting some work, but aren't taking the brunt of it... Incidentally, I am not a huge proponent of leg extensions for quads... Very bad for the patella tenden. I prefer using the hack squat machine, which is sort of an upright positioned leg press.
if you do them properly they are fine, just like anything else. turn your leg out a little, and work the VMO (the teardrop style muscle on your inner knee)
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:04 PM   #41
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leg press and ESPECIALLY squats isn't really "quads", leg extensions are but they are counteracted by the leg curls.
If you count up the total reps of every set you do in a workout they will all be on the :"endurance scale", what does that mean? Not a lot! sets of 10 will help with hypertrophy, which he is after.
31-50 and 15-30? So if I did 30 one day its for strength, 31 the next its for size? where did you read that? misinformed my friend!

I realise there won't be such a strict boundary on it, which is why I put (generally speaking). However, I thought it was pretty much standard that strength, size, and endurance had different rep ranges?
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #42
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I realise there won't be such a strict boundary on it, which is why I put (generally speaking). However, I thought it was pretty much standard that strength, size, and endurance had different rep ranges?
In the sets, not the overall reps of the workout for any given bodypart you choose. If that was the case, then the hamstrings also get worked in the endurance range, but the glutes get worked in the size range. Makes no sense!
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:24 PM   #43
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In the sets, not the overall reps of the workout for any given bodypart you choose. If that was the case, then the hamstrings also get worked in the endurance range, but the glutes get worked in the size range. Makes no sense!


I thought the overall rep range was important, too. I've spent a couple of years now ensuring I don't go over 30 reps for any exercise.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:41 PM   #44
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I thought the overall rep range was important, too. I've spent a couple of years now ensuring I don't go over 30 reps for any exercise.
probably why your gains have been sub-par.
why would you TRY and stop yourself putting some good work in?
incase you get "too big" overnight?
you should know better!
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:46 PM   #45
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Mr. Small, I do a lot of Romanian dead lifts, which is sort of like a half dead lift... What are your thoughts on these?
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