How do you think jack johnson would have adjusted his game for the modern era?

[lufcrazy]

Just watched a few johnson fights and a couple of documentaries on him.

Jimmy jacobs (not sure how much stock is placed on him in here) said the best comparison he could make to johnson in the modern era would be muhammad ali as they both

"wanted to get the job done without getting hurt"

Would his grab and block style still prove successful against taller, busier fighters?

I think against anyone he had a size advantage over, his actual style would still prove successfull and I really do mean anyone smaller than him.

But against guys as big or bigger (height, reach, overall frame) I can't see it working as well so how do you think he'd adjust?

Chris byrd would change from an inside defensive fighter to an outside defensive fighter depending upon his opponent, how do you see johnson changing things up?

Would he turn up his own aggression, stick and move, jump in and back out, rely on reflexes and movement? What do you guys think?

[killuminix]

depends which era

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by killuminix

depends which era

60's onwards (patterson, ingo, liston, ali, frazier, foreman, norton, holmes, spinks, tyson, douglas, holyfield, bowe, moorer, lewis, rahman, vitali, byrd, wladimir)

[killuminix]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

60's onwards (patterson, ingo, liston, ali, frazier, foreman, norton, holmes, spinks, tyson, douglas, holyfield, bowe, moorer, lewis, rahman, vitali, byrd, wladimir)

dam he def could dominate 50-early 60s dont know about the 70s tho he would make top 3

[Seamus]

It's very difficult to say. Obviously, he had superior reflexes, toughness, and good strength for his size. On the downside, he was a bit smallish for the division, lacked reach especially for his style and had not, so far as we know, demonstrated high output. My hunch is that he would be a top 5 fighter in almost any era but I don't see him on top at any point since 1960 with the best chance being post-Holmes pre-Tyson.

[KuRuPT]

My first impression is... of course he would've... He was already considered a smart fighter for his era... why would this change if he was lumped into subsequent era's. Having said that, I think it would only be fair to give him the benefit of athletic techniques and technology for each subsequent era. Anyways, the reason why I say he would've adjusted and been just fine in any ear, and imo, but champion of any era (maybe not as dominate in some eras as others but he's certainly great enough to be a champion) is because he clearly had superior reflexes, speed for a HW, coordination, defense and parrying & strength/power. Those things wouldn't change in any era and as technology, training and styles changed.. he would adjust and get the benefit from the positive changes in technology and training. He had all the tools needed to do well in any era. His workrate would be the only problem.. but his workrate was just fine for an era whch say people with similar workrates or where imo they had just as high workrate.

Let me ask you luf... how do you see johnson doing in a _/10 scenerio against...

Ali
Marciano
Lewis
Liston
Patterson
Dempsey
Holmes

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

My first impression is... of course he would've... He was already considered a smart fighter for his era... why would this change if he was lumped into subsequent era's. Having said that, I think it would only be fair to give him the benefit of athletic techniques and technology for each subsequent era. Anyways, the reason why I say he would've adjusted and been just fine in any ear, and imo, but champion of any era (maybe not as dominate in some eras as others but he's certainly great enough to be a champion) is because he clearly had superior reflexes, speed for a HW, coordination, defense and parrying & strength/power. Those things wouldn't change in any era and as technology, training and styles changed.. he would adjust and get the benefit from the positive changes in technology and training. He had all the tools needed to do well in any era. His workrate would be the only problem.. but his workrate was just fine for an era whch say people with similar workrates or where imo they had just as high workrate.

Let me ask you luf... how do you see johnson doing in a _/10 scenerio against...

Ali
Marciano
Lewis
Liston
Patterson
Dempsey
Holmes

Ali, liston, lewis and holmes would beat jack imo.

He beats all of the rest though imo.

[KuRuPT]

How does Liston beat him though? How about Joe Louis... I may be in the minority but I see Johnson beating Louis.

[PowerPuncher]

Johnson literally toyed with his opposition, he seemed to rarely get out of second gear, using defence and potshoting to pick apart opponents from range. You have to bare in mind he was winning while laughing at his opponents. But he could put together excellent combinations when he needed too, and had a great uppercut, very talented. With a top class modern trainer he could adapt in my view

[teeto]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Johnson literally toyed with his opposition, he seemed to rarely get out of second gear, using defence and potshoting to pick apart opponents from range. You have to bare in mind he was winning while laughing at his opponents. But he could put together excellent combinations when he needed too, and had a great uppercut, very talented. With a top class modern trainer he could adapt in my view

this

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by teeto

this

The problem is that his opposition was nowhere near the level of heayweights of 60's and beyond. Simply irrefutable fact.

There is also the problem that he struggled with the likes of Hart, O'Brien, Jim Johnson and earlier with Choynski. Would any of those fellows actually make a dent in the rankings of the 70's-00's heavies? Please indulge me and say yes they would.

[Swarmer]

More mobile, higher output, higher right hand.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

How does Liston beat him though? How about Joe Louis... I may be in the minority but I see Johnson beating Louis.

I believe liston is stronger than johnson. I think johnson staying in range against liston results in knockout. I think johnson fighting on the outside results in him being pounded with the jab.

Louis is the most complete hw in history imo. He had it all and would have beaten anyone prime for prime as far as i'm concerned.

[Vano-Irons]

He does get underrated IMO, mostly due to his unfriendly style. But like 1 lad said, he usually beat his opponents seemingly without trying too hard. He used all of his physical attributes to his advantages (similar in a way to Wlad). Anyone smaller than him he beats IMO, apart from maybe Louis who has the power to stop him. Guys like Wlad, Lewis and Holmes certainly beat him, as does Ali.

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by Seamus

The problem is that his opposition was nowhere near the level of heayweights of 60's and beyond. Simply irrefutable fact.

There is also the problem that he struggled with the likes of Hart, O'Brien, Jim Johnson and earlier with Choynski. Would any of those fellows actually make a dent in the rankings of the 70's-00's heavies? Please indulge me and say yes they would.

Is there any doubt that the 6'3 220-240 pound Jim Johnson would have been competitive? Sure He may not have beaten Foreman and Frazier, although he certainly wouldnt be physically bothered, but i think he starts a big favourite against say Jerry Quarry and the like.

O Brien was an all time great Light heavyweight at least on par with say Doug Jones, i think he performs as well as Doug Jones did.

Choynski may have been a big hitting Light heavyweight and the best of his time. WHile it is true that he did better than his 70s equivalent foster, doesnt that just mean that Choynski was a better heavyweight than Foster was?

Hart is a strange one to have troubled Johnson, as he doesnt even really seem to have been that great in his own time let alone the 70s. But is suppose we look to say Norton who was similar kriptonite for Ali. Norton is obviously physically better, but his chin certainly seems to have more question marks than Harts. I dont think Hart would be totally out of his depth.