Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith

IntentionalButt · 10-08-2011, 04:01 AM

This past Thursday, there was a bit of a meltdown on the part of noted spoiler Ishe "Sugar Shay" Smith as he spammed his followers' Facebook walls with the following miniature tirade over the course of about an hour:

"Apart of me died 7-16-2010, u will never know what it feels like to give urself to something and feel cheated. I know I won that fight."

"That hunger that drives me died, its been hard to get back, this Fan, family, and u guys have helped me get it back, thank you so much"

"Let's me one thing clear, I aint going to cry over it, but I didn't feel I beat Powell or Jacobs, but Guerrero, I know I won that."

"that's what hurt the most, I have hated this #!@%*#ty sport ever since that day. Not everything is going to be perfect, and I know nothing is easy, and with trials there is no Glory, I apologize for not always giving you the best fights, but as God as my witness, I promise to never give u a dull again, and I will always train and prepare 150%, and when God says its time, I will go with my head held high."

It's interesting that of all his losses (all decisions and all competitive, with scoring depending much on "what you like") this is the only one he's bitter about.

How did you score it?

On the night, I had it 95-93 for Smith (having taken I believe the first three and last three with the 8th a 10-8 his way, and Guerrero sweeping 4-7 with the 6th a 10-8 for him) and thought Guerrero was a little lucky to avoid his first defeat and that 97-91 for him was out of line.

I'm looking forward to giving it a fresh look and seeing if my score comes out any different a year later.

For those who didn't see/score it live...or those like me who want to give this tough one another go:

Full round-by-round scores and final tallies, please.

DemolitionDan · 10-08-2011, 05:14 AM

Borked? Facebook? Que?

I do feel bad for him, it really is tough to really really deep down in your heart you know you won, but the judges don't give you the decision. I know what he means and I can 100% understand. One moment in 2011 that really sticks out in my mind is Mike Dallas not getting the decision against Herrera. It really is gutwretching and really does take your heart out. Anyway, I'm getting a bit off topic, but I think watching it live I had it a draw, I'll rewatch and rescore the fight in the next couple of days.

IntentionalButt · 10-08-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionDan

Borked? Facebook? Que?

I do feel bad for him, it really is tough to really really deep down in your heart you know you won, but the judges don't give you the decision. I know what he means and I can 100% understand. One moment in 2011 that really sticks out in my mind is Mike Dallas not getting the decision against Herrera. It really is gutwretching and really does take your heart out. Anyway, I'm getting a bit off topic, but I think watching it live I had it a draw, I'll rewatch and rescore the fight in the next couple of days.

I'm guessing your confusion in the first line meant that the Youtube videos didn't show up for you (ESB comes up with the message "Borked" for improperly embedded/dead link Youtube URLs) - but all four show up fine for me.

Try refreshing?

...and if not enough context was given in the OP, yeah - I'm pals with Sugar Shay on Facebook. He actually later apologized for spamming everyone's feed and said that he noticed it even got him deleted by a bunch of people (

) but he felt better about getting it off his chest.

I personally didn't think it was close to one of the worst robberies of last year, or even a robbery per se ...although 97-91 Guerrero was an abomination - just a case where the "wrong guy" (IMO) won what should have been a close shave either way. You're right, though - what has to be going through the professional athlete's mind when he did everything he was supposed to, both in weeks of preparation and execution on the night & feels certain that he bought himself victory with his blood sweat and toil - just to be told "No. Sorry. You lose. Good day, sir"

I was taken off guard by how profoundly this affected Smith and that he chose to share it so openly with the world, and it inspired this thread.

DemolitionDan · 10-08-2011, 03:00 PM

Oh ok, I was viewing it from my phone. I guess that's why borked popped up, but yeah I don't really know how Facebook works and all that so I still really don't know what's up and what not.

cesare-borgia · 10-08-2011, 03:15 PM

From memory I had it a draw, guerrero doing well and was leading till he got dropped in the later rounds, then ishe took the last few. but he also lost a point earlier.

Samurai's Slice · 10-08-2011, 03:19 PM

To be honest I never got to see it. I will watch it then. BTW since Guerrero got schooled by Grady. Any word on him? Is he coming back?

Manfred · 10-08-2011, 03:25 PM

I watched that fight and thought Ishe did enough to win. I know the decision broke his spirit but it is what it is and he just gotta double down. Life aint fair.

IntentionalButt · 10-08-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manfred

I watched that fight and thought Ishe did enough to win. I know the decision broke his spirit but it is what it is and he just gotta double down. Life aint fair.

True. It's interesting to me that he could arguably be bitter about any of his losses (even if in some cases it would be self-delusion, but that sort of blind pride is common among boxers) and this is the only one that's sour grapes.

I'm looking forward to watching it again and trying to peg down exactly why he thought he won it so clearly and what makes it so hard for him to get over, when my first impression as it happened live was that he'd just barely nicked a close one and was just slightly unlucky not to get the nod.

IntentionalButt · 10-08-2011, 10:10 PM

OK, just got through watching and re-scoring.

Round 1 - 10-9 Smith but pretty close.
Round 2 - 10-9 Guerrero but close again. 19-19
Round 3 - 10-9 Guerrero. 29-28 Guerrero
Round 4 - 10-9 Guerrero, big round. 39-37 Guerrero
Round 5 - 10-9 Guerrero, as clear as the 4th. 49-46 Guerrero
Round 6 - 10-8 Guerrero. 59-54 Guerrero
Round 7 - 10-9 Smith. 68-64 Guerrero
Round 8 - 10-8 Smith. 76-74 Guerrero
Round 9 - 10-9 Smith. 85-84 Guerrero
Round 10 - 10-9 Smith. 94-94...a draw.

This was my old scorecard:

Round 1 - 10-9 Smith, 10-9 Smith
Round 2 - 10-9 Smith, 20-18 Smith
Round 3 - 10-9 Smith, 30-27 Smith
Round 4 - 10-9 Guerrero, 39-37 Smith
Round 5 - 10-9 Guerrero, 48-47 Smith
Round 6 - 10-8 Guerrero, 57-56 Guerrero
Round 7 - 10-9 Guerrero, 67-65 Guerrero
Round 8 - 10-8 Smith, 75-75
Round 9 - 10-9 Smith, 85-84 Smith
Round 10 - 10-9 Smith, 95-93 Smith

So my view changed on rounds 2 & 3 (from Smith to Guerrero) and 7 (from Guerrero to Smith).

Interestingly, the first time my scoring was perfectly in line with Steve Farhood's. (who had it 48-47 through five, with Smith sweeping the first three...and 85-84 Smith heading into the last round, which he gave Smith). This time it happened to align instead with Antonio Tarver's on every single round.

View Poll Results: Who won?
Guerrero won.	2	33.33%
Smith won.	2	33.33%
Draw.	2	33.33%
I used to think Guerrero, but changed my mind to Smith upon review.	0	0%
I used to think Guerrero, but changed my mind to a draw upon review.	0	0%
I used to think Smith, but changed my mind to Guerrero upon review.	0	0%
I used to think Smith, but changed my mind to a draw upon review.	0	0%
I used to think draw, but changed my mind to Guerrero upon review.	0	0%
I used to think draw, but changed my mind to Smith upon review.	0	0%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

10-08-2011, 04:01 AM	#1
IntentionalButt Nash Equilibrium Debunker East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 123,310 vCash: 0	Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith This past Thursday, there was a bit of a meltdown on the part of noted spoiler Ishe "Sugar Shay" Smith as he spammed his followers' Facebook walls with the following miniature tirade over the course of about an hour: "Apart of me died 7-16-2010, u will never know what it feels like to give urself to something and feel cheated. I know I won that fight." "That hunger that drives me died, its been hard to get back, this Fan, family, and u guys have helped me get it back, thank you so much" "Let's me one thing clear, I aint going to cry over it, but I didn't feel I beat Powell or Jacobs, but Guerrero, I know I won that." "that's what hurt the most, I have hated this #!@%#ty sport ever since that day. Not everything is going to be perfect, and I know nothing is easy, and with trials there is no Glory, I apologize for not always giving you the best fights, but as God as my witness, I promise to never give u a dull again, and I will always train and prepare 150%, and when God says its time, I will go with my head held high." It's interesting that of all his losses (all decisions and all competitive, with scoring depending much on "what you like") this is the only one he's bitter about. How did you* score it? On the night, I had it 95-93 for Smith (having taken I believe the first three and last three with the 8th a 10-8 his way, and Guerrero sweeping 4-7 with the 6th a 10-8 for him) and thought Guerrero was a little lucky to avoid his first defeat and that 97-91 for him was out of line. I'm looking forward to giving it a fresh look and seeing if my score comes out any different a year later. For those who didn't see/score it live...or those like me who want to give this tough one another go: Full round-by-round scores and final tallies, please.
Top

10-08-2011, 05:14 AM	#2
DemolitionDan ATG and HoF East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,795 vCash: 1996	Re: Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith Borked? Facebook? Que? I do feel bad for him, it really is tough to really really deep down in your heart you know you won, but the judges don't give you the decision. I know what he means and I can 100% understand. One moment in 2011 that really sticks out in my mind is Mike Dallas not getting the decision against Herrera. It really is gutwretching and really does take your heart out. Anyway, I'm getting a bit off topic, but I think watching it live I had it a draw, I'll rewatch and rescore the fight in the next couple of days.
Top

10-08-2011, 03:00 PM	#4
DemolitionDan ATG and HoF East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,795 vCash: 1996	Re: Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith Oh ok, I was viewing it from my phone. I guess that's why borked popped up, but yeah I don't really know how Facebook works and all that so I still really don't know what's up and what not.
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10-08-2011, 03:15 PM	#5
cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Weed capital of the world Posts: 16,333 vCash: 1000	Re: Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith From memory I had it a draw, guerrero doing well and was leading till he got dropped in the later rounds, then ishe took the last few. but he also lost a point earlier.
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10-08-2011, 03:19 PM	#6
Samurai's Slice ESB Legend East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Follow my blog, Boxing Legends on Facebook for the most up to date boxing news! Posts: 9,253 vCash: 171	Re: Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith To be honest I never got to see it. I will watch it then. BTW since Guerrero got schooled by Grady. Any word on him? Is he coming back?
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10-08-2011, 03:25 PM	#7
Manfred Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2,404 vCash: 500	Re: Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith I watched that fight and thought Ishe did enough to win. I know the decision broke his spirit but it is what it is and he just gotta double down. Life aint fair.
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10-08-2011, 10:10 PM	#9
IntentionalButt Nash Equilibrium Debunker East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 123,310 vCash: 0	Re: Revisiting & re-scoring...Fernando Guerrero vs. Ishe Smith OK, just got through watching and re-scoring. Round 1 - 10-9 Smith but pretty close. Round 2 - 10-9 Guerrero but close again. 19-19 Round 3 - 10-9 Guerrero. 29-28 Guerrero Round 4 - 10-9 Guerrero, big round. 39-37 Guerrero Round 5 - 10-9 Guerrero, as clear as the 4th. 49-46 Guerrero Round 6 - 10-8 Guerrero. 59-54 Guerrero Round 7 - 10-9 Smith. 68-64 Guerrero Round 8 - 10-8 Smith. 76-74 Guerrero Round 9 - 10-9 Smith. 85-84 Guerrero Round 10 - 10-9 Smith. 94-94...a draw. This was my old scorecard: Round 1 - 10-9 Smith, 10-9 Smith Round 2 - 10-9 Smith, 20-18 Smith Round 3 - 10-9 Smith, 30-27 Smith Round 4 - 10-9 Guerrero, 39-37 Smith Round 5 - 10-9 Guerrero, 48-47 Smith Round 6 - 10-8 Guerrero, 57-56 Guerrero Round 7 - 10-9 Guerrero, 67-65 Guerrero Round 8 - 10-8 Smith, 75-75 Round 9 - 10-9 Smith, 85-84 Smith Round 10 - 10-9 Smith, 95-93 Smith So my view changed on rounds 2 & 3 (from Smith to Guerrero) and 7 (from Guerrero to Smith). Interestingly, the first time my scoring was perfectly in line with Steve Farhood's. (who had it 48-47 through five, with Smith sweeping the first three...and 85-84 Smith heading into the last round, which he gave Smith). This time it happened to align instead with Antonio Tarver's on every single round.
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