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View Poll Results: Was Vargas green?
Yes 35 58.33%
No 25 41.67%
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:11 PM   #31
Kaki
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Originally Posted by IsaL View Post
Actually, Vargas was a way ****ing smarter fighter than Tito...

Going into the 10th or 11th rounds, Vargas had managed to come back from teo 1st rd KDs, 4 low blows, and have an even fight with Tito....

Unfortunately the Boxer Puncher slowed considerably in the 11th and 12th rounds, one might say it was because of the 4 uppercuts to his groin, but he slowed down and paid dearly.

IMO, he could have beat Trinidad had he fought Tito like he did from rounds 2-10, and minus the low blows.

Vargas fell apart later in his career because of the two beatings from Tito and DLH, and his back problems.
Vargas was not a smart fighter, not in the least.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

No. He wasn't green, but he also probably hadn't reached his full potential yet. We never saw what that full potential might have been though because of the Trinidad fight. It still pisses me off to watch Trinidad steal pages from the Andrew Golota playbook and get away with it.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Originally Posted by HawkFan16 View Post
No. He wasn't green, but he also probably hadn't reached his full potential yet. We never saw what that full potential might have been though because of the Trinidad fight. It still pisses me off to watch Trinidad steal pages from the Andrew Golota playbook and get away with it.
What do you mean by this
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:14 PM   #34
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Vargas was not a smart fighter, not in the least.
Vargas has never been dominated like Tito has...With the exception of the second Mosley fight (where he was truly shot to hell) he has made a decent to good account for himself...

Where as Tito has been dominated 4 times...You tell me, who's the smarter fighter?
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Vargas has never been dominated like Tito has...With the exception of the second Mosley fight (where he was truly shot to hell) he has made a decent to good account for himself...

Where as Tito has been dominated 4 times...You tell me, who's the smarter fighter?
Yea Vargas wouldn't get dominated by Hopkins
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Yea Vargas wouldn't get dominated by Hopkins
Not like Tito did...Vargas was a boxer, good on his feet, and great reflexes...Tito was clumsy on his feet, he relied mostly on power and his good accuracy.

Infact, I think Vargas would make a better account against Hopkins than Tito, DLH, and Winky did...Simply because Vargas had the feet and power, and style to make a good account for himself.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

Tito told him he was, I felt he was a worthy challenger
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:27 PM   #38
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

What is Varga's run at MW as compared to Tito? Tito was just not the same fighter at 160.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

A tad green, but as said before, Main Events felt he might self destruct so they put him in there with Tito. Obviously Vargas could've benefited from a little more experience, but he was pretty season for a young guy with that many fights. Going 24 rounds with Wright and Quartey. I'm not sure how much better he would've gotten.

I don't really agree with Vargas losing because he was fighting the wrong fight. He did jump on Tito as soon as the bell rang, maybe to send a message, but when he got caught with the hook that dropped him 20 seconds later, that was simply Tito countering a jab. That shit can happen in any style. Time a jab perfectly and counter.

Vargas was doing well in round 5, he dominated that round more or less with boxing and using angles/movement. Round 6 is when Tito turned it back in his
favor with a right hand that had Vargas holding. Vargas was again trying to box in this round, but had gotten backened near the ropes and got caught. For the next couple of rounds, Tito kept catching Vargas with shots, including some long shots at a distance.

Then in round 9, Vargas was trying to back up and Tito caught him with another long right hand. THEN is when Vargas tried to stay and go to war with Tito, and landed some good shots. But the toll was adding up.

I respect Vargas for going for it at the end, trying to land his left hook, which resulted in him getting stopped. At least he was willing to put himself on the line in order to win, rather than play it safe and lose a decision.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

No, he was young. Difference there.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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A tad green, but as said before, Main Events felt he might self destruct so they put him in there with Tito. Obviously Vargas could've benefited from a little more experience, but he was pretty season for a young guy with that many fights. Going 24 rounds with Wright and Quartey. I'm not sure how much better he would've gotten.

I don't really agree with Vargas losing because he was fighting the wrong fight. He did jump on Tito as soon as the bell rang, maybe to send a message, but when he got caught with the hook that dropped him 20 seconds later, that was simply Tito countering a jab. That shit can happen in any style. Time a jab perfectly and counter.

Vargas was doing well in round 5, he dominated that round more or less with boxing and using angles/movement. Round 6 is when Tito turned it back in his
favor with a right hand that had Vargas holding. Vargas was again trying to box in this round, but had gotten backened near the ropes and got caught. For the next couple of rounds, Tito kept catching Vargas with shots, including some long shots at a distance.

Then in round 9, Vargas was trying to back up and Tito caught him with another long right hand. THEN is when Vargas tried to stay and go to war with Tito, and landed some good shots. But the toll was adding up.

I respect Vargas for going for it at the end, trying to land his left hook, which resulted in him getting stopped. At least he was willing to put himself on the line in order to win, rather than play it safe and lose a decision.

Does a certain someone come to mind...
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

He may have been rushed, but it wasn't his first rodeo. It isn't as though he went from 6-rounders to Tito. No excuses. He lost in his prime.

Emanuel Steward famously uttered that he had NO IDEA how it was going to go! (thus disallowing himself the luxury of later saying it went as such)
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Originally Posted by cangryman View Post
What do you mean by this
1. He was 22 at the time, and probably had yet to fully mature physically as a result. Vargas is a little like Tyson in that regard- Tyson rocketed to the top and did his best work as a 19-22 year old kid. Tyson wasn't at his hypothetical physical peak we see most athletes reach yet, and neither was Vargas. The point is, we never got to see what Vargas, and Tyson in this example, were fully capable of because as fighters they were basically ruined in both skills and mentality before reaching their physical peak years from 25-29- Vargas because of his running into Trinidad, and Tyson because he fired Rooney as his trainer and ****ed around way too much outside the ring.

2. As I said above, Trinidad basically ruined Vargas. While not as blatant as Golota, Trinidad (and his hand wraps), as well as the fact he went to work on Vargas' nuts immediately after Vargas dropped him in round 4 really took some steam out of Vargas, averting what could have been a serious momentum shift in Vargas' favor, and of course the wraps obviously helped Tito wear Vargas down over the course of the fight. The fight could have ended quite differently if Trinidad actually fought fairly.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:02 PM   #44
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Smile Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

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Originally Posted by I1T2BOX View Post
Does a certain someone come to mind...
Well actually I wasn't even thinking of Oscar.

I was thinking more of fighters who are behind on the cards and accept the loss. Oscar thought he was ahead against Tito on the cards.

Mosley in recent fights, for example. Other times, guys fight hard and take risks, they're competitive up to a certain point, but after taking too much punishment, they seem to accept the loss and look to survive. While being behind on the cards, Cotto went into survival mode in the 2nd half of the Pacquiao fight. It's been awhile since I saw Trinidad-Reid, IIRC correctly, after Reid somehow survived the 11th round, he more or less looked to not get KO'd in the 12th.

Vargas was like "**** it, I'm gonna try to knock him out, even if it puts me at too much risk and gets me knocked out".
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: Was Vargas green when he fought Trinidad?

i think its funny people even bring oscar up when all he did was pickup after Trinidad destroyed people...
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