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Old 10-13-2011, 12:48 PM   #46
apollack
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because others cheat doesn't mean you aren't a cheater. Same with baseball. Not every player took steroids. They should be in the hall, not the ones who used performance enhancing drugs.

I also don't think Miguel Lora should be in the hall of fame. He is currently on the ballot and I will not vote for him. As a young man, I saw Lora "defeat" Albert Davila. Only he had sugar and amphetamines in his water. When I found that out, I was very angry, and to this day I still feel that bout should have been ruled a no contest.

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Last edited by apollack; 10-13-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:58 PM   #47
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Isn't Illegal.. Illegal.?
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:06 PM   #48
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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Originally Posted by apollack View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because others cheat doesn't mean you aren't a cheater. Same with baseball. Not every player took steroids. They should be in the hall, not the ones who used performance enhancing drugs.

I also don't think Miguel Lora should be in the hall of fame. He is currently on the ballot and I will not vote for him. As a young man, I saw Lora "defeat" Albert Davila. Only he had sugar and amphetamines in his water. When I found that out, I was very angry, and to this day I still feel that bout should have been ruled a no contest.

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So do you think Vitali should be a champion, he failed a drugs test for steroids? Ditto Toney, Tubbs, Tyson, Tucker (failing drugs tests)...

Marciano (like many others), fought as an amateur for pay, and indeed fought as an amateur after a pro fight, does that DQ him from a Hall of Fame? After all cheating is cheating, and The Rock cheated...

If we are going down the path of cheating is cheating, I doubt there is a fighter who deserves to be in any Hall of Fame. Everybody at one time or another cheats to get an edge. You cannot have one rule for one, and another for another. They all need to be punished, or we let it all slide.

The fact Pandora's box has long since been opened on this subject in this sport. I would say, short of illegal actions that could lead directly to serious injury or death (Resto/Collins for example), everything else has to be ignored.

Boxing is not really a sport where we can get on our moral high horse with a straight face.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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So do you think Vitali should be a champion, he failed a drugs test for steroids? Ditto Toney, Tubbs, Tyson, Tucker (failing drugs tests)...

Marciano (like many others), fought as an amateur for pay, and indeed fought as an amateur after a pro fight, does that DQ him from a Hall of Fame? After all cheating is cheating, and The Rock cheated...

If we are going down the path of cheating is cheating, I doubt there is a fighter who deserves to be in any Hall of Fame. Everybody at one time or another cheats to get an edge. You cannot have one rule for one, and another for another. They all need to be punished, or we let it all slide.

The fact Pandora's box has long since been opened on this subject in this sport. I would say, short of illegal actions that could lead directly to serious injury or death (Resto/Collins for example), everything else has to be ignored.

Boxing is not really a sport where we can get on our moral high horse with a straight face.
Those people were actually punished for cheating and drug use, regardless of what you think about the "punishment" used. Some did have fight results overturned even for minor offenses (Tyson-Golota). Vitali lost the chance to fight in the Olympics. Toney was suspended from boxing.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:22 PM   #50
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Those people were actually punished for cheating and drug use, regardless of what you think about the "punishment" used. Some did have fight results overturned even for minor offenses (Tyson-Golota). Vitali lost the chance to fight in the Olympics. Toney was suspended from boxing.
But it not about punishment, apollack is going on about the moral right or wrong of the situation. To me that is very shaky ground in boxing...
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:26 PM   #51
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But it not about punishment, apollack is going on about the moral right or wrong of the situation. To me that is very shaky ground in boxing...
True although if you take the Davila win away from him, Lora's record starts looking a bit lacking to be inducted into the IBHOF.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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All the controversy surrounding that ordeal. I dont know what people think was in it to give him an edge lol.
More than just water.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:32 PM   #53
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

Whatever it was, it wasn't water. The victory has no validity in my eyes.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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Originally Posted by apollack View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because others cheat doesn't mean you aren't a cheater. Same with baseball. Not every player took steroids. They should be in the hall, not the ones who used performance enhancing drugs.

I also don't think Miguel Lora should be in the hall of fame. He is currently on the ballot and I will not vote for him. As a young man, I saw Lora "defeat" Albert Davila. Only he had sugar and amphetamines in his water. When I found that out, I was very angry, and to this day I still feel that bout should have been ruled a no contest.

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The bout took place August 1st, when did the drug tests which found the amphetamines in his system take place?
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:05 PM   #55
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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All the controversy surrounding that ordeal. I dont know what people think was in it to give him an edge lol.
Cafe latte, with a shot of peppermint and a liberal sprinkle of nutmeg, just the way he liked it.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:06 PM   #56
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Whatever it was, it wasn't water. The victory has no validity in my eyes.
Bonkerz.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:45 PM   #57
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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Whatever it was, it wasn't water. The victory has no validity in my eyes.
So by that statement, you are saying if I take what was in that bottle, I too would of flattened Arguello!!!

Come on, clearly Hawk Time had an awful lot of validity, or Lewis was so stupid to not realise his little black bottle contained a substance, that could give ordinary people, world class athletic abilities, and he could make a small fortune selling the secret...
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:50 PM   #58
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
So by that statement, you are saying if I take what was in that bottle, I too would of flattened Arguello!!!

Come on, clearly Hawk Time had an awful lot of validity, or Lewis was so stupid to not realise his little black bottle contained a substance, that could give ordinary people, world class athletic abilities, and he could make a small fortune selling the secret...
No i'm not saying that.

Kinda makes the rest of your post pointless.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:08 PM   #59
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:29 PM   #60
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Default Re: What was in Pryors water bottle?

Poor Alexis was just in there with a fighter who could take his best shots. That very rarely happened to him.

Good stoppage, by the way.
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