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Old 10-26-2011, 01:36 AM   #61
Wu-Gambino
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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Originally Posted by Senya13 View Post
I didn't use the same logic, on the contrary, I used it to show inconsistency in people's opinions. In one thread they say, look who this guy beat, he's winning this fantasy matchup. In another they say, doesn't matter who he beat, he's got the tools/potential and is winning this fantasy matchup.
Whose opinion your own?

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For sure Roy Jones has got a better 175 lbs resume than Hearns' 147 lbs, and by far so, to back up his ability with actual achievements, and to make one consider other things than his opposition in a matchup with Charles.
This may be true but I wouldn't go as to say by far so, a fairly weak era for the 175 lb class. Hearns was finishing a higher percentage of his opponents and more quickly than Jones at welter (bar Leonard) to make up for a lack of quality opponents anyway.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:29 AM   #62
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

Hearns' 147 winning resume is nowhere near Jones' 175 winning resume. Jones had had a near perfect KO record for a while at the start of his career also, that doesn't mean shit. Hearns wasn't exactly fighting world-beaters where he scored those knockouts.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:51 AM   #63
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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Hearns' 147 winning resume is nowhere near Jones' 175 winning resume. Jones had had a near perfect KO record for a while at the start of his career also, that doesn't mean shit. Hearns wasn't exactly fighting world-beaters where he scored those knockouts.
Seriously, who did Jones beat at 175 that was so impressive? Ill give him Griffin but the talent pool is shallow beyond that.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:51 AM   #64
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

I'd put money on Robinson.

I'd abstaining from betting if he fought Leonard or Hearns.

I'd give Napoles a great shot.

Other than that, I think he's about tops.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:15 AM   #65
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

At Welter, Hearns did Bruce, Espedas and Cuevas inside the distance (first names that spring to mind this early in the morning) so he wasn't exactly Tony Ayala in the resume stakes.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:19 AM   #66
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

Cuevas as a single win is better than any win Jones has at 175.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:23 AM   #67
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

Hell, even his losing performance against Leonard is good enough to give him a strong chance against Gavilan, the way I see it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:43 AM   #68
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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Originally Posted by Wu-Gambino View Post
Seriously, who did Jones beat at 175 that was so impressive? Ill give him Griffin but the talent pool is shallow beyond that.
The question is who did Hearns beat at 147? That talent pool is not just shallow, it's simply empty.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:51 AM   #69
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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Hell, even his losing performance against Leonard is good enough to give him a strong chance against Gavilan, the way I see it.
Give him a chance - yes. Make him a favorite, or even score a KO, as seems to be an opinion of many people here - give me a break.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:52 AM   #70
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

No way anyone's stopping Gavilan at Welterweight. I don't think anyone's picked him to do so, either.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:57 AM   #71
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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The question is who did Hearns beat at 147? That talent pool is not just shallow, it's simply empty.
Never said Hearns comp was strong at 147, I just wanna know where this huge disparity in class between opposition is coming from?
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:13 AM   #72
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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Never said Hearns comp was strong at 147, I just wanna know where this huge disparity in class between opposition is coming from?
How about counting former, reigning or future titlists that Hearns beat at 147 lbs? And please, no arguments that anybody could win a title now, the fact that somebody like Pipino Cuevas was able not only to win, but to make several defences of the title, shows not everything was good at that time either.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:27 AM   #73
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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How about counting former, reigning or future titlists that Hearns beat at 147 lbs? And please, no arguments that anybody could win a title now, the fact that somebody like Pipino Cuevas was able not only to win, but to make several defences of the title, shows not everything was good at that time either.
Cuevas, Gazo, Muangsurin, Curry, Espada along with contender types in Shields, Weston, Colbert, Gray & Finch.

There were 2 more titles around in Jones's day (WBO & IBF), as far as WBA & WBC title holders he had wins over five in Tarver (lost 2 out of 3), Griffin, Del Valle, Hill and McCallum. Reggie Johnson also held a WBA title at middleweight.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:58 AM   #74
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

Which of them held titles at welterweight (or higher)? Gazo was overweight fight, anyway.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:48 AM   #75
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Default Re: Kid Gavilan - head-to-head monster?

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Which of them held titles at welterweight (or higher)?
Cuevas, Espada & Gazo. Should he have dug up John Stracey or Jose Napoles? Palomino retired after being beaten by Duran (KO'd in two by Hearns) and the Benitez fight took place at 154 lbs.

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Gazo was overweight fight, anyway.
As was Jones vs Virgil Hill, technically.
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