David Haye vs Henry Cooper

[Primadonna Kool]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

He'd already prevailed in one of his more difficult fights (Jones) and defeated Archie Moore. Six months after Cooper, he bamboozled Sonny Liston.

Sort it out, Kool

Whats your point..? You know deep down i am right.

Everybody reading my post right now, knows that what i'm about to say.........is totally right.

David Haye would of beaten Henry Cooper, a smaller slower, Less Skilled Fighter. Fair enough he had heart, he was fairly tough "Had his own array of skills", but lets not get carried away. If this very same thread was brought up 3 years ago, EVERYBODY would be agreeing with me.

"But people on this British boxing forum are bitter towards David Haye"

How the fuck is Henry Cooper going to beat David Haye..? This recent Heavyweight David Haye.

In this Moderen heavyweight Era, David Haye was fighting guys -3-4-8 stone heavyier than himself.

Against a 185/187pound Henry Cooper..? David Haye would be fighting a totally different fight...! And i don't beleave for one second that Henry Cooper could cope, with them kind of Hayemakers.

[Flea Man]

You said Ali was just 'skinny'. When arguably his greatest performance and physical peak occurred in his very next fight against Liston.

If Cooper can deck Ali, who actually knew how to navigate a ring, then he can spark Haye. Would he? Up for debate.

[Primadonna Kool]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

You said Ali was just 'skinny'. When arguably his greatest performance and physical peak occurred in his very next fight against Liston.

If Cooper can deck Ali, who actually knew how to navigate a ring, then he can spark Haye. Would he? Up for debate.

David Haye knew how to navigate the ring..? Are you gassed..? be real with yourself, stop being so bitter towards David Haye. Are you trying to say David Haye could not navigate a ring..? Are you fucking messin..? One of the main reasons why David Haye beat Valuev..? is because he navigated the ring.

At heavyweight David Haye was hit far less than he was at Cruiserweight, and so what if Henry Cooper Decked Muhammad Ali. He didn't knock him out, and anybody can deck anybody.

Henry Cooper was a bruiser inside of the ring, thats a very bad thing when coming up against David Haye. Henry Cooper was battered in 90% of his fights, he was a bruiser, a tough guy with a heart.

Fair enough, he might be able to hit David Haye. But i bet you, David Haye could hit Henry Cooper more times, and on more occasions. David Haye was not only bigger, but he had the greater hand speed, great athleticism, greater power.

We are talking about David Haye, as if he has just been owned or outclassed. Nobody in the history of David Haye's career have ownED him, or made him look like a complete and utter miss-match.

Wladimir Kiltschko a modern day well skilled, fast, and technically sound Superheavyweight. Standing at 6"6, and with a 82" reach..? Could hardly hit David Haye..! David Haye's NAVIGATIONAL SKILLS, and athletic ability was nulifing Wladimir Kiltshcko's offense.

And some people think Henry Cooper, IS going to land at will against David Haye..? fucking be real with yourself.

David Haye win's this fight within 3-4 rounds.

[Flea Man]

Haye himself said it was the smaller guys that caused him trouble.

As for his lateral movement, it didn't set him well to do what he did previously, and his balance was still bad. Stop saying I'm bitter as well, for fucks sake I couldn't give two shits about personal hatred, I go on what I see.

And David Haye was no great shakes as a fighter. Nor was Cooper, which is exactly why I think this is a pretty even matchup.

[Primadonna Kool]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Haye himself said it was the smaller guys that caused him trouble.

As for his lateral movement, it didn't set him well to do what he did previously, and his balance was still bad. Stop saying I'm bitter as well, for fucks sake I couldn't give two shits about personal hatred, I go on what I see.

And David Haye was no great shakes as a fighter. Nor was Cooper, which is exactly why I think this is a pretty even matchup.

That was just David Haye being humble.

The BOTTOM line is, he was a better fighter than Henry Cooper. Henry Cooper could not move, your sitting there slating David Haye's Navigational skills.

When Henry Cooper, walked around a ring like a MUMMY. Fair enough David Haye was off balance sometimes..? so what. So was Joe Calzaghe, but there navigation skills got them out of trouble, and their oponents into trouble at times.

You sound bitter to me, you sound pretty bitter to me

David Haye was the undistuped Crusiweright Champion, and former WBA world Heavyweight Champion. Visibly had more speed than Henry Cooper, had more power, had more athleticism, he was a better fighter than Henry Cooper. This is not a even fight, its not a pretty even fight, and you know this.

Henry Cooper as small, slow, and unskilled as he was, and who had poor navigation speed. Would not survive in today's modern era of heavyweights. Wladimir Kiltscko would of taken him out within, 5 rounds. David Haye went 12 rounds with Wladimir Kiltschko he was not owned or beaten up badly, it was a tense and technical affair.

"Thats why people are bitter and fustrated"

David Haye beats him with 3-4 rounds, David Haye beats Henry Cooper

[Flea Man]

Haye would have suffered as bad in Coopers era as Cooper would in Hayes probably. The 2nd tier would be a whole lot easier for Cooper nowadays, the top tier more difficult for Haye.

I find Haye to be pretty overrated too be honest with you. Mormeck was probably no better than Cooper to be frank with you.

[Primadonna Kool]

Yes.

[Threetime no1]

@Primadona Kool

Cooper/Haye aside.

It really bothers you when you think people have turned they back on Haye.

At the end of the day mate he left a lot of people thinking they had been short changed.
I followed him after seeing him as an amateur and was right behind him, then somewhere between Ruiz and Harrison my support started to wane.
He then signed to fight Wlad and i was willing to forget why i was disillusioned with his HW career and, was in full support of him again because he was giving us the fight we wanted.
He then basically became a typical Wlad opponent and blamed it on an injury. A big no no.

It's not hard to see why people are miffed with him.

David gave us some exciting nights at cruiser and did bring a spark back to the hw's. I will always like him and think his cruiser career and moving up to heavy to win a belt are achievements most will never accomplish. He can be proud.

But overall as an hw he was dissapointing. After giving it big licks he failed to deliver while leaving a sour taste.
If he were to come back i would still support him, but knowing full well he is not the fighter or man i thought he once was.

[Black2023]

Originally Posted by vipers

Who wins and why?

Haye would have smashed Cooper badly, henry wasnt even world class in his day.

[Black2023]

Originally Posted by DmazFW

I agree. This is why I am not a fan of old fighter vs new fighter match ups in general, you would have to wonder how Cooper would have done if he had todays fitness, diet and trainers behind him (fuck he probably would have never fought at heavy if he was here today).

I could still imagine Cooper at 13.5 being a decent match up for Ruiz and Audley....how would Ruiz and Audley matched up against Coopers foes?

Cooper was 185 and average, i give Rocky shit for being 185 but he was good.

Henry wouldnt handle D. Williams at his best never mind Haye.

Cooper was never a top 10 heavy ever in his pro carrer.

[Black2023]

Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino

Haye in his old style would have a chance.

The post-Maccarinelli Haye would probably run around the ring, wave his arms about trying to look flash and lose a decision.

His regression technically from then on was shocking IMO.

You been reading my posts lol.


Thats true Haye regressed after the Macca fight much like Tyson after the Spinks fight.


If Haye would have been in the 60s,70s id put him behind -

Ali,
Liston
Foreman
Holmes
Frazier


He was on the levels of R. Lyle, K. Norton, Shavers, J. Young and Patterson. Although thats head to head....resume wise haye is pretty low.

[Black2023]

Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool

Regression Technically..?

David Haye went from fighting guys his own size, to guys 2-3-4-8 stone heavier than himself

Wonder how Manny Pac would fight against Chad Dawson or Carl Froch...? He would be knocked out within 1 round, 2 rounds! and his power would probably be laughed at by Carl Froch.

David Haye technically did not regress, he actually improved. He was hit far less at heavyweight than at Cruiser-weight. He had to be more sensible, and defensive inside of the ring, due to the share weight disadvantage.

David Haye would have a party vs Henry Cooper, a smaller slower fighter! with less technical skills and speed.

David Haye would totally destroy him....

Haye was talented enough to improve from the mormeck and macca fights...he didnt. He was sloppy against barrett and ruiz and employed a low output against valuev and harrison major flaws in his game.

[Black2023]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

He'd already prevailed in one of his more difficult fights (Jones) and defeated Archie Moore. Six months after Cooper, he bamboozled Sonny Liston.

Sort it out, Kool

Ali was known to fight to his opponents level...he messed around with cooper and it nearly cost him.

He fought with fear against Liston...awesome that night...if he faced cooper tht night he would have batttered him in 2.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Originally Posted by Black2023

You been reading my posts lol.


Thats true Haye regressed after the Macca fight much like Tyson after the Spinks fight.


If Haye would have been in the 60s,70s id put him behind -

Ali,
Liston
Foreman
Holmes
Frazier


He was on the levels of R. Lyle, K. Norton, Shavers, J. Young and Patterson. Although thats head to head....resume wise haye is pretty low.

He was way below all those too IMO.

There's no evidence to suggest he was anything more than an average heavyweight. He never dared to prove it.

Something he might look back on in his later days and regret.

[DmazFW]

Was Haye world class in his day also taking into account that is day was fucking shite.