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Old 10-31-2011, 03:42 AM   #1
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Default Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.

2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.

3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line.

4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.

There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Pac will swarm Void, come at him from all angles, Void can't take that...........
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:05 AM   #3
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Too much reading for you guys? I guess you'd probably like it more if I say "Pac will beat Floyd because he's that damn good."
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.

2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.

3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line.

4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.

There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.

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Old 10-31-2011, 04:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Nothing to do with the reading, just I've read the same thing from 200 other Pac****s, who've got 5 boxing brain cells between them, and one of those is on the brink.

Don't compare the Floyd who fought Corley to the Floyd that Pac would face, he's much bigger, staying on the size issue (I'm keeping it simple 'not too much reading' Ya know... Mosley and Ortiz had their rare flash of success each because they had the size to impose their will, and both of them were actually getting walked down by Floyd in the end.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Nothing to do with the reading, just I've read the same thing from 200 other Pac****s, who've got 5 boxing brain cells between them, and one of those is on the brink.

Don't compare the Floyd who fought Corley to the Floyd that Pac would face, he's much bigger, staying on the size issue (I'm keeping it simple 'not too much reading' Ya know... Mosley and Ortiz had their rare flash of success each because they had the size to impose their will, and both of them were actually getting walked down by Floyd in the end.
If you don't want to disprove those weaknesses, then what's the your point?

I didn't ask for your silly insults or snide remarks. And Mosley was running for dear life from Pac regardless of his size advantage. It's funny how a small fighter was able to not only impose his will, but scare the living **** out of a fighter much bigger than he was.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

If PAC was a right handed fighter this fight would have been made a long time ago.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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If PAC was a right handed fighter this fight would have been made a long time ago.
Thats insane.
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Thats insane.

wayr these dudes come from? Money beat every southpom he ever fot!
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:32 AM   #11
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SOMEHOW NO ONE PICKED APART MY ****YZIS ON PAC/FLOYD FIGHT, SO ILL POST IT AGAIN HERE:

you have to understand mayweather's defensive stance (shoulder roll) and how he has evolved as a boxer (used to rely almost exclusively on pure reflexes -his reflexes is out of this world, almost all time high, prolly because he was trained at very early age, like tiger woods- , on both offense and defense, although his defensive insticts is already there.

now his reflexes has declined, his agility has decreased as well. he is now more reliant on his defense rather than pure reflex.

now picture yourself like mayweather is infront of you on a defensive stance, what do you see?
1. he is in 45 degree angle.
2. shoulder roll stance covers his left chin.
3. left hand low, arm covers the stomach portion
4. left elbow covers his left ribs.
5. right hand glove covers his right chin.
6. right elbow covers his right ribs.
what is open?
1. his left side of the face (left eye, left cheek, nose)
2. left temple
2. his chin, bottom and center
you see its a very small target, couple with cat-like reflexes, its very difficult, but it can be hit.

now what are the punches that will hit those open targets? (assuming you are fast/quick enough to overcome his reflexes, cause he bends his body, raises his elbows, moves his right glove)

1. from orthodox stance.
1a. left jab to the body, just above floyd's left arm (this will bother him if you can do quick enough, he doesnt like getting tagged)
1b. straight left jab to the left side of face (this will bother him, remember the comment on mosley fight "if you have a faster/quicker jab, i wanna see it)
1c. overhand right to the temple (you need to be tall enough and has reach adv if you are slower; quick enough if you are not as tall, and has decent reach. if you have the right power it can hurt him, ala mosley round 2. mosley baited him with the left jab to the body and came with the overhad right, another sign floyd has declined, this wont happen years before.
1d. right uppercut, this is extremely difficult to land bec he can raise his left elbow, twist his body, block with his right glove.

2. from southpaw stance:(i think you can clearly see where im going with this now)
2a. lead left to the face or body
2b. straight left to the left side of face the face
2c. straight left to the center of chin
2d. left uppercut to the bottom of chin
2e. left straight to the body
2f. right jab to the left face.
2g. overhand right to the left side of the temple
note: pac has the ability to land all these punches with the necessary quickness and power and then some, he actually throws the overhand right to the left face with power, his what i call his power right lead.

if you are quick and/or powerful enuff to land these punches, you can either bother or hurt him.

of course he prefers the orthodox style because he only needs to look out after the overhand right by shoulder rollinging it, and its only thrown once a while, he can adjust with a high guard if necessary, again ala mosley. left jabs are only going to bother him, not hurt him. he will take that away if necessay by timing it with his pull back right hand.

he doesnt like fighting soutpaw because as you can see 4 type of punches can hurt him. the right jab lands to left side of his face and he will be shouldering rolling it too often, its awkward, it bothers him. it takes away some of his offense. so what he does, he becomes more aggressive. he initiates the offense more, lead right to the face or body, left hook to the face.

now, with everything in place, enter manny pacquiao.

in this matchup, floyd has the reach advantage, around 5" iirc. what does this means? it means pac has to close the distance first before he can land his punches. this is the exact reason why i favor floyd slightly (with the assumption that all their boxing attributes remain constant when they fight). pac has to do 2 things while floyd only one, maintain the distance at all cost.

what i think floyd will do in this fight:
1. maintain distance, with his jab and/or footwork, circling and moving.
2. he sneaks his lead right to the face or stomach (he cant do this too often because pac can time it, then its all over) and clinch.
3. pac closes the distance, he clinches.
4. he cant allow pac to back him up esp in a corner because pac is going to tee off on him.
5. make it an ugly, ala hopkins. clinch and rough him up inside: elbows, low blows, head butt, body slam, turns back so pac hits him in the back of the head, lots of acting to try penalize/disqualify pac.
6. lots of tactical delays: initiate offense and then clinch, walk pac across the ring, ala tyson -holyfield 1.
7. just make the real ugly and slow to limit pacs workrate.

note: i think floyd will never try to walk down pac, not with the shoulder roll though, maybe with a high guard.

what pac needs to do here: (i think i posted this in other thread).
1. pac will do his usual tricks: really quick, really fast in and out to close the distance.
2. do his usual tricks when he is at his puching range: lead left to the face or body and spin
3. bait and feint floyd and land his fading right hook to the face, ala margarito round 10, iic.
4. try and tag floyd with his power lead right.
5. rinse and repeat.

note: pac's ultimate goal here is to back floyd up in the corner and land his punches. ortiz has had decent success with floyd, im sure pac will have too. however, when floyd ALLOWS an opponent to tee off on him in the corner, thats because he knows he can defend the punches, and he wants to TIRE them, **** up their stamina. once, an opponent is tire enough and lose some sting in this punches, floyd will start trading/exchanging -ala hatton later rounds, and be more offensive. i think floyd will clinch once he is backed in the corner by pac.

so, on paper: floyd 60 (-) and pac 40 (+). less than 20% gap is very small gap, it can be overcome by sheer determination alone.

IMPORTANT: imagine other boxers' (ortiz, berto, oscar, mosley, marquez, margarito, cotto, martinez, williams, etc..) offense, punches slot into mayweather's defense. then you will know whether its a mistmatch or difficult fight for mayweather.

my 2cents.
No one has picked apart because they know it's right.

We also know how each fighter reacts to getting hit, and it's pretty obvious that Pac handles it much better.
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Originally Posted by sunnn View Post
pac's chin must be good cuz he got no D-fens!

floyd's cat-like reflexes and his defense r cuz he is smart 2 not want brayn damaj!
FIXED 4 u!
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.
In case you haven't noticed, FMJ's defense sets up his offense. When he's on the ropes, he makes his opponent miss badly which saps the guy's energy. There's a reason why Vic threw the headbutt - it's because he couldn't land a clean shot even though Floyd was on the ropes. That's a fact. I know Pac has epic stamina but he gets frustrated when he misses a lot which can be seen in his fight against Mosley and certain parts in the Cotto match. If MP had a hard time against Mosley's AVERAGE defense, how's he gonna solve the Mayweather puzzle?

2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.
There isn't ONE pro fighter on this planet who does NOT get hit cleanly a few times in a match. Nobody is telling you Mayweather is perfect so get that idea out of your head. Getting hit comes with the territory. The real challenge is to win at least 7 rds against him. Pac has the ability to do that. But they said the same thing about 41 fighters who have faced FMJ. It's not impossible to defeat him. But I guarantee you it won't be easy.

3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line. When was the last time you saw Floyd really struggle against a southpaw? Please don't bring up Corley, Zab, and Ortiz. They all had their moments but they were all dominated. When a southpaw wins 6 rds or more against Floyd then I'll start taking you seriously. And do you really think Floyd is going to move back in a straight line? You're insulting his ring intelligence. He's going to DUCK the straight left or block it or swat it away with his glove. He might land a straight right before his opponent can even begin to throw his shot. There's also the option of clinching as a way to limit a fighter's punch output.

4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.
Aren't you being nit-picky? Even the great ones gets stunned. It's how you respond to adversity that really matters. Pac was stunned by Cotto - don't remember which round it was but it nearly caused a KD. Pac was in trouble at one point in the fight against Margarito when a body shot was landed. MP even admitted after the fight he was on the brink of getting knocked down. Even if Floyd gets hurt his recovery time is excellent so there's really no point in questioning his chin strength.

There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.
I wouldn't call those aforementioned aspects weaknesses. They're more along the lines of mistakes which all fighters make. The great ones make less mistakes than others. Falling into the ropes is more of a trap being set up than a flaw or at least in FMJ's case it is. I don't think Ortiz had Floyd hurt at any point in the fight. The right hook bothered him but didn't stun him. Prior to fighting Floyd, Vic had knocked down almost every single opponent he faced. Didn't even come close to doing it against FMJ.
Think about it.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.

2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.

3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line.

4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.

There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.
No, no all wrong. Floyd kicks the **** out of Pac, Superman, Vitali in one night. Floyd has no kryptonite, he cannot be defeated. His record is unblemished and deserves consideration alongside Paul Spadfora's....
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.
I don't see how this is a weakness? Mayweather is very, very good at weathering a storm, he is excellent at tying up his opponents offense if he is hurt. Again, weakness? No. It is smart. He gets his senses back and then fights back. If you wanted to point out a weakness of Mayweather's concerning the ropes, it is that he routinely, and willingly goes back in a straight line to the ropes when under attack.

Quote:
2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.
Against Pacquiao, the southpaw stance is not the main thing to worry about. Southpaws are unorthodox, but Pacquiao is an unorthodox southpaw. Like I said, the southpaw stance is not the main threat to Mayweather, Pacquiao possesses other threats that Mayweather needs to worry about...is the stance a factor? Yes, but not as much as some people seem to think.

Quote:
3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line.
He used it now and again vs Ortiz, but I wouldn't advise him to use it against Pacquiao.

Quote:
4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.
Boxers get hit, I don't really see that as a weakness. No boxer in history has avoided every punch.

He was hurt badly against Mosley, but he also took some pretty flush shots from him in the latter rounds.

Lets be honest, he wasn't stunned against Ortiz whatsoever. Going backwards in a straight line (like he always does) whilst rolling shots (Ortiz landed about 2 clean punches) does not make you stunned.

Quote:
There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.
Every boxer has weaknesses. Can Pacquiao win? Yes.
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