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View Poll Results: JJJ or WK?
Steelhammer! 41 68.33%
Boilermaker! 19 31.67%
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:33 PM   #61
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Wlad is comfortably ahead now. He's just so dominant. His nearest contender is a man who won the belt of a guy wlad had already beat.

Wlad's in my top ten now james is in the tier below I think.
What in the world are you talking about?

Wlad's nearest contender is a man who won the title by knocking out the Man who knocked out Wlad in a couple of rounds. He is also a man who Knocked out the guy before that who knocked out Wlad. He has also held the world title for longer than Wlad. Until Wlad beats him, he cant be far ahead of the competition, because he has not established himself as the number one heavyweight in the world.

You dont do that by beating the 2nd, third and fourth best fighter in the world when the best fighter is still active and still winning all his fights!
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:17 AM   #62
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
What in the world are you talking about?

Wlad's nearest contender is a man who won the title by knocking out the Man who knocked out Wlad in a couple of rounds. He is also a man who Knocked out the guy before that who knocked out Wlad. He has also held the world title for longer than Wlad. Until Wlad beats him, he cant be far ahead of the competition, because he has not established himself as the number one heavyweight in the world.

You dont do that by beating the 2nd, third and fourth best fighter in the world when the best fighter is still active and still winning all his fights!
Are you posting from an alternate universe were vitali didn't retire due to shoulder injuries? I always wonder how that'd have panned out so it'd be great to hear your insight!

In my universe vitali got injured and had to retire, in his absence we saw wlad and byrd (the guy who made vitali quit on his stool) face off. Wlad won in dominant fashion and has been number 1 ever since which is a pretty impressive span of 6 years! Not many active heavyweights throughout history can rival that dominance nor longevity.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:00 AM   #63
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Are you posting from an alternate universe were vitali didn't retire due to shoulder injuries? I always wonder how that'd have panned out so it'd be great to hear your insight!

In my universe vitali got injured and had to retire, in his absence we saw wlad and byrd (the guy who made vitali quit on his stool) face off. Wlad won in dominant fashion and has been number 1 ever since which is a pretty impressive span of 6 years! Not many active heavyweights throughout history can rival that dominance nor longevity.

My alternative universe is one that is a long way from the one you are in which somehow seems to think that Vlad has bigger challengers out there than Vitali

I agree that Chris Byrd is a big win for Wlad, probably his biggest. But let us not forget that he followed his loss to Wlad with a loss to Povetkin. Not to mention the loss to George. If a Byrd victory was such as to elevate Wlad to undisputed number one, surely Povetkin would have been a standout number one contender since 2008!

And even though Vitali is ripe for the picking now, the fact is that he has not been beaten and he has as much claim as Wlad. His record since 2008 contains names which are pretty much as impressive as Wlads, to be honest. If Lennox Lewis comes out of retirement and goes undefeated for 4 years beating the same level of competition as Vitali has beaten, i hardly think that Vitali could claim to be the undisputed world champion because Lennox had retired.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:25 AM   #64
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
My alternative universe is one that is a long way from the one you are in which somehow seems to think that Vlad has bigger challengers out there than Vitali

I agree that Chris Byrd is a big win for Wlad, probably his biggest. But let us not forget that he followed his loss to Wlad with a loss to Povetkin. Not to mention the loss to George. If a Byrd victory was such as to elevate Wlad to undisputed number one, surely Povetkin would have been a standout number one contender since 2008!

And even though Vitali is ripe for the picking now, the fact is that he has not been beaten and he has as much claim as Wlad. His record since 2008 contains names which are pretty much as impressive as Wlads, to be honest. If Lennox Lewis comes out of retirement and goes undefeated for 4 years beating the same level of competition as Vitali has beaten, i hardly think that Vitali could claim to be the undisputed world champion because Lennox had retired.
Your first paragraph doesn't really correspond to anything I said so i'll assume you misread my post.

I'm not sure where you've been for the last 4 years but povetkin has been one of the standout contenders. He just got a gift against huck and has visibly declined so he isn't taken as seriously now but after the ibf tournament he was very highly ranked.

Your last paragraph doesn't make much sense to me but i'll have a go at deciphering it: vitali's level of opponent is unquestionably beneath wlad's in recent years. You seem a bit obsessed with lewis coming out of retirement lately but if he did so, went undefeated for 4 years all the while disputing wlad's claim then ofcourse wlad's claim would be disputed. I don't see your point there. The sky is blue.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:29 AM   #65
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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I rate fighters strictly on facial hair so neither ranks very high in my opinion.

And BE that's just crazy talk. Absolutely crazy! There is no war in Ba Sing Sei! We have and always will be at war with Eastasia!

You, me and IB should get together for a reference-off, one of these days.


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I voted Jeffries at the time, but now I changed my mind....Wlad is higher in my list.
Did you rethink it or did Mormeck and Thompson make the tipping point?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
My alternative universe is one that is a long way from the one you are in which somehow seems to think that Vlad has bigger challengers out there than Vitali

I agree that Chris Byrd is a big win for Wlad, probably his biggest. But let us not forget that he followed his loss to Wlad with a loss to Povetkin. Not to mention the loss to George. If a Byrd victory was such as to elevate Wlad to undisputed number one, surely Povetkin would have been a standout number one contender since 2008!

And even though Vitali is ripe for the picking now, the fact is that he has not been beaten and he has as much claim as Wlad. His record since 2008 contains names which are pretty much as impressive as Wlads, to be honest. If Lennox Lewis comes out of retirement and goes undefeated for 4 years beating the same level of competition as Vitali has beaten, i hardly think that Vitali could claim to be the undisputed world champion because Lennox had retired.
Maybe the single most relevant fight to Volo's resume and overrated status is Chris Byrd's match with Shaun George. I'm glad someone mentioned it here. It was like the giant, pink elephant in the middle of the living room. No one wants to mention it or acknowledge its existence, yet they're all afraid it will at worst sit on one of the children or at best shit on the coffee table where the scones are.

If it's two things boxing fans will not abide by, it's having their children squashed to death and their scones shat upon. And that's what was going on here, until someone mentioned Chris Byrd's match against Shaun George. And that someone was you. You have prevented the deaths of our children and the complete tainting of our scones. Thank you, B. Thank you and may SNV bless you.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:44 PM   #66
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

I'm glad it's mocked when somebody implies that Vitali is basically still champion instead of Wladimir and Chris Byrd's loss after dropping down to light heavyweight after getting beaten up and stopped at heavyweight twice near retirment reflects badly on Wlad's claim. This reminds me of the guy the other day who picked on Frazier's ATG rank for his fight with Cummings.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #67
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by MrOliverKlozoff View Post
I'm glad it's mocked when somebody implies that Vitali is basically still champion instead of Wladimir and Chris Byrd's loss after dropping down to light heavyweight after getting beaten up and stopped at heavyweight twice near retirment reflects badly on Wlad's claim. This reminds me of the guy the other day who picked on Frazier's ATG rank for his fight with Cummings.
the truth has been spoken!
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by MrOliverKlozoff View Post
I'm glad it's mocked when somebody implies that Vitali is basically still champion instead of Wladimir and Chris Byrd's loss after dropping down to light heavyweight after getting beaten up and stopped at heavyweight twice near retirment reflects badly on Wlad's claim. This reminds me of the guy the other day who picked on Frazier's ATG rank for his fight with Cummings.
Do you honestly think that a prime Chris Byrd loses to George, at any weight? Or that it is a coincidence that 1 year after he lost to Wlad he was knocked out. Wlad may have always beat Chris Byrd. In fact, i have always said that it was his best win. But Byrd had aged by the time he fought Wlad the second time around.

I dont understand the comparison made with Frazier Cummings. Frazier, like Byrd was not in his prime. Cummings doesnt deserve the same credit for beating him that Goeorge Foreman or Ali got many years earlier. So i suppose you could be right. I would have thought that Ali might be a better analogy. Do we really need to give Leon Spinks that much credit when shortly after he was losing fights to Larry Holmes and drawing with Trevor Berbick. Could probably take it back further to Ernie Shavers.


And by the way, Boxears, i am glad for what you pointed out.

As a Valuev fan, would you agree that Valuev v George at a cruiserweight catchweight is one of the greatest missed opportunity blockbusters of the modern era?
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:58 PM   #69
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
Do you honestly think that a prime Chris Byrd loses to George, at any weight? Or that it is a coincidence that 1 year after he lost to Wlad he was knocked out. Wlad may have always beat Chris Byrd. In fact, i have always said that it was his best win. But Byrd had aged by the time he fought Wlad the second time around.

I dont understand the comparison made with Frazier Cummings. Frazier, like Byrd was not in his prime. Cummings doesnt deserve the same credit for beating him that Goeorge Foreman or Ali got many years earlier. So i suppose you could be right. I would have thought that Ali might be a better analogy. Do we really need to give Leon Spinks that much credit when shortly after he was losing fights to Larry Holmes and drawing with Trevor Berbick. Could probably take it back further to Ernie Shavers.


And by the way, Boxears, i am glad for what you pointed out.

As a Valuev fan, would you agree that Valuev v George at a cruiserweight catchweight is one of the greatest missed opportunity blockbusters of the modern era?
Are you on like a lot of meth? I want to know before I do any work to explain where you're going wrong. Because if this is a regular thing with you there's no point.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:15 PM   #70
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

No, please tell me where the above is wrong.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:25 PM   #71
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

I don't rate Jeff because I can't really assess his abilities. I am continually amazed that Wlad or Vitali impress any knowledgable boxing fan. They are big but so what? They both fight like statues, very mechanical, very limited in overall ability. Hwt boxing is not about size or muscular physiques. It's about skill, speed and the ability to fight. Both brothers have greatly benefited from the horribly watered down state of boxing today.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:34 PM   #72
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
And by the way, Boxears, i am glad for what you pointed out.

As a Valuev fan, would you agree that Valuev v George at a cruiserweight catchweight is one of the greatest missed opportunity blockbusters of the modern era?
It would be tough, boiling down to the weight he was at when he was 14 years old, but I think he could do it and still make a classic with a 'W' attached.
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:32 AM   #73
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

Wlad is higher for me.

Better fighter who beat better opposition if you could believe it.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #74
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Default Re: Who rates higher for you at heavy? Jeffries or Wlad Klitschko?

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The guy in your avvy KOs Jeffries in less than a round.
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