F**k Pacman, Fighting Harada is the Greatest Asian fighter of all time

[lora]

Eibihara had more ability than pac in a similar yet more developed style.His bouts against top level textbook technicians like kingpetch and Accavallo were fought on a higher level than pac's crowning moments against Marquez etc

On the other hand hes a one-weightclass man with a shorter prime.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by lora

Eibihara had more ability than pac in a similar yet more developed style.His bouts against top level textbook technicians like kingpetch and Accavallo were fought on a higher level than pac's crowning moments against Marquez etc

On the other hand hes a one-weightclass man with a shorter prime.

Put these fighters in order please:

Villa
Elorde
Ebihara

[teeto]

I like Villa and Ebihara as fighters more so than Elorde. In terms of achievemnts it may be more difficult to say though

[lora]

Ebihara
Elorde

Not to sure about Villa, especially as i'm purely interested in the inherent in-ring ability and H2H possibility of fighters these days.I feel i'd need to see more of him.

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

And I like Pac'.

Harada was as dynamic a swarmer as Pac, as ferocious, as deadly.

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He should rightfully be a 3 weight weight World Champion, with as impressive a resume as Pac, if you use common sense; Caraballo; Rudkin; Jofre x2 (or 1-1 for some); Medal (1-1); Ebihara; Famechon; Hawkins; Kingpetch x2.

There is nothing between them in terms of ability. Pacquiao has some incredible weight jumping credentials and a style all of his own with awe-inspiring handspeed and consistent assault, but Harada also displayed a rounded game and could string together just as manny punches as Manny in sustained barrage, and didn't have the benefit of 24 hour rehydration periods, nor did he have numerous light/super divisions and multiple titles and still achieved titles in numerous weights and beat great fighters.

So, if you view each mans close fights a certain way (not intentional bias, just if you yourself see say, the 2nd Kingpetch fight for Harada, and the Marquez fights for Pac) could you feasibly rate Harada as the greater fighter?

I am, today anyway

Flea, I think you're on to something here..Harada was just brilliant and overwhelming as well..even though Pac is my favorite fighter of today, Harada is a bonafide alltime great. He was much more than just a swarmer....and he beat another bonafide alltime great TWICE in Eder Jofre, which still impresses the shit out of me after all these years.

[Flea Man]

Yep, the Barrera win was one of sheer class for Pacmans resume, but Jofre clearly trumps that.

[teeto]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Yep, the Barrera win was one of sheer class for Pacmans resume, but Jofre clearly trumps that.

Clearly

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Yep, the Barrera win was one of sheer class for Pacmans resume, but Jofre clearly trumps that.

Yep

[Flea Man]

So, do we agree it's a reasonable hypothesis? As I say, I would probably still give the edge to Pac.

[Boxed Ears]

Oh, really? Well, allow me to offer irrefutable proof of your incorrectness, gentle Flea.





Boom! Can you come anywhere near that, with Harada (no pun intended)?

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

Oh, really? Well, allow me to offer irrefutable proof of your incorrectness, gentle Flea.





Boom! Can you come anywhere near that, with Harada (no pun intended)?

Cock, give me a real answer?

[PowerPuncher]

Quite different, technically yes Harada is much better, speed there doesn't seem allot between them, Harada probably is a better thinker, Pac has the best straight left in history though

I think Harada beats Pac from 112-118, although Pac would probably be coming into the ring 10+lbs heavier and is much taller/longer so may well beat him at FW

In terms of greatness I think Pacquaio has achieved more but Harada is a fighter I've overlooked and not learnt too much about

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL

Pacquiao is a fly beating welterweights......

No he's a WW (well 150lber now with a tiny bodyfat) taking on dehydrated MWs, he's never had a size disadvantage pre-DLH

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL

Pacquiao is a fly beating welterweights.

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

No he's a WW (well 150lber now with a tiny bodyfat) taking on dehydrated MWs

For fuck's sake, both of you. Vic, what a disturbingly misleading statement, mate. A flyweight can actually, conceivably, viably make flyweight. Can Pacquiao likely make flyweight to fight? How about bantamweight? ...Feather? The lowest weight I think he might make, if he trained for it, in viable condition, is lightweight/135, as he was reportedly draining hard to make the limit in his last 130-pound contest. This is why people go batshit crazy over weight-jumping. These weird notions that don't account for naturally filling out. Pacquiao is more a natural light welterweight dominating some good welterweights. Which is great enough that it doesn't need blown out of proportion by calling him a flyweight. He's a former flyweight, like he's a former teenager. You don't say "Hey, he's a teenager, beating guys in their twenties and thirties!" because he's not a teenager anymore. Right? Well, he ain't a flyweight either. Virgil Hill didn't have his 0 taken by a welterweight, either. Dig?


PP, . What the hell, brother? They're all welterweights, but it's quite obvious Pacquiao's a significantly, naturally smaller welterweight than Clottey, Cotto and so on. But, you can't refer to them as dehydrated middles because then actual current middles aren't middles but dehydrated super middle to even cruisers, by that bizarre anti-logic. It's just really, really silly to say that. Come on.

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Cock, give me a real answer?

I can't, I just wasted all my seriousness on PP and Vic. ...Oh, alright, I just think it's subjective enough that you can't really shutdown an argument for either to be ranked above the other. I rate Pac higher, but I don't think anything of someone flipping them.

[Flea Man]

Good man and good post

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

For fuck's sake, both of you. Vic, what a disturbingly misleading statement, mate. A flyweight can actually, conceivably, viably make flyweight. Can Pacquiao likely make flyweight to fight? How about bantamweight? ...Feather? The lowest weight I think he might make, if he trained for it, in viable condition, is lightweight/135, as he was reportedly draining hard to make the limit in his last 130-pound contest. This is why people go batshit crazy over weight-jumping. These weird notions that don't account for naturally filling out. Pacquiao is more a natural light welterweight dominating some good welterweights. Which is great enough that it doesn't need blown out of proportion by calling him a flyweight. He's a former flyweight, like he's a former teenager. You don't say "Hey, he's a teenager, beating guys in their twenties and thirties!" because he's not a teenager anymore. Right? Well, he ain't a flyweight either. Virgil Hill didn't have his 0 taken by a welterweight, either. Dig?


PP, . What the hell, brother? They're all welterweights, but it's quite obvious Pacquiao's a significantly, naturally smaller welterweight than Clottey, Cotto and so on. But, you can't refer to them as dehydrated middles because then actual current middles aren't middles but dehydrated super middle to even cruisers, by that bizarre anti-logic. It's just really, really silly to say that. Come on.



I can't, I just wasted all my seriousness on PP and Vic. ...Oh, alright, I just think it's subjective enough that you can't really shutdown an argument for either to be ranked above the other. I rate Pac higher, but I don't think anything of someone flipping them.

I'm pretty serious, Manny is a 150lb man in the ring, significantly smaller than the 155-165lb men he faces in the ring. If he cuts water he's a LWW, maybe a LW at a push, he could conceivably do that, he and his team believe cutting that water is detrimental to his performances and this is why the Marquez fight is at 144lbs (or is it 142?). Yes most MWs are effectively 170lb men if not bigger, even a realtively the small MW, the 170lb Martinez Mayweather is also a 150lb WW who could conceivably cut water to fight at LWW/LW but has always believed in the old school philosophy of training down to his optimum weight and not dehydrating himself. I personally believe if water is cut properly and rehydration salts are used, then cutting 5% of your bodyweight above your natural weight class is optimum