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Old 11-08-2011, 12:54 PM   #1
Azzer85
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Default Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

A lot of people talk about Tysons best fight as Spinks, i feel the Tyson from the Berbick fight is really underrated.

Who would you pick against THAT version of Tyson and why?
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

He says he had an STD for this fight, but maybe that somehow made him more dangerous...

Ali would be my only confident pick, there are quite a few 50/50's or very very close fights tough, including Louis, Holyfield, Lewis etc. Tyson was a very special fighter and you're inevitably talking about small margins when you pick against him.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
He says he had an STD for this fight, but maybe that somehow made him more dangerous...

Ali would be my only confident pick, there are quite a few 50/50's or very very close fights tough, including Louis, Holyfield, Lewis etc. Tyson was a very special fighter and you're inevitably talking about small margins when you pick against him.
I may be in the minority, but i feel Tyson has a better chance against the ****y pre exile Ali. Possibly catching him, and unlike Cooper, if Tyson caught Ali, he would finish the job. The post exile one would most likely weather the storm and win a MD.

Other than Ali, i can say maybe Foreman, due to the similar aggresive styles and the size and strength advantage.

Possibly Liston because he has the size and style.

IMO Tyson wipes the floor with Dempsey, Marciano, Louis and Frazier.

Holyfield is a big question mark. Tyson fought Holyfield 10 years after the Berbick fight.

Tyson beats Bowe, Bowe leave himself too open. Bowe eagerly gets involvled in wars, you dont want to do that against Tyson.

Lennox is 50/50, we could see a situation similar to their actual fight. Or Tyson rushes Lewis and doesnt give him any room and stops him.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

There are just so many what ifs. I remember typing up a huge, huge breakdwon of Liston-Tyson which was a win for Liston, but then some kid points out the way Liston can reach with his jab agains smaller men, the way Tyson ditches those jabs, and just how good the Tyson uppercut is. He was right. If Tyson lands two such uppercuts in round one the fight takes a whole new direction. It's not curtains for Liston, by any means, but it's different to what I saw straight away.

Talking in generalities is basically worthless at this kind of level, as we've been taught time and time again by results in history, but talking in great details sometimes isn't that much better. In the end we have two great punchers and two really great chins, and how those attributes match up will probably decide the fight, but we don't know how those attributes will match up. Styles favour Liston by miles IMO, and he could still lose.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

"I know one thing, that I know nothing"
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

Tyson was very determined against Berbick but he was also fairly green as a pro. I dont think this was the best Tyson. Berbick stood and fought him and thats why they had no problem matching Tyson against him at such a young age.

Not sure they would have allowed that Mike Tyson to even fight the Larry Holmes that he faced. Tyson was still learning how to deal with mobile fighters and he did very well improving his ability to cutoff the ring and close the distance on mobile tall boxers. He might not have been ready for that in 1986.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

Louis has a chance against any Tyson, based on punching range; I've always felt when Mike languished on the inside that Joe could put something together, if he hasn't been decimated by a leaping Kid Dynamite coming in from just inside mid-range with his bombs.

Ali, 50-50 against that Tyson. No one I'd make a genuine favourite over the young Mike, he was a ****in' animal and a complete offensive machine.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
There are just so many what ifs. I remember typing up a huge, huge breakdwon of Liston-Tyson which was a win for Liston, but then some kid points out the way Liston can reach with his jab agains smaller men, the way Tyson ditches those jabs, and just how good the Tyson uppercut is. He was right. If Tyson lands two such uppercuts in round one the fight takes a whole new direction. It's not curtains for Liston, by any means, but it's different to what I saw straight away.

Talking in generalities is basically worthless at this kind of level, as we've been taught time and time again by results in history, but talking in great details sometimes isn't that much better. In the end we have two great punchers and two really great chins, and how those attributes match up will probably decide the fight, but we don't know how those attributes will match up. Styles favour Liston by miles IMO, and he could still lose.
My sentiments exactly. But I try not to get too deep in these mythical match ups.

Regarding the question, I feel Tyson can take anyone. I give Ali, Foreman, Liston and Bowe the best chances to unseat Tyson. Lewis would be dangerous and Holyfield would be tough but Ali, Foreman, Liston and Bowe would be the most difficult.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

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Originally Posted by salty trunks View Post
Tyson was very determined against Berbick but he was also fairly green as a pro. I dont think this was the best Tyson. Berbick stood and fought him and thats why they had no problem matching Tyson against him at such a young age.

Not sure they would have allowed that Mike Tyson to even fight the Larry Holmes that he faced. Tyson was still learning how to deal with mobile fighters and he did very well improving his ability to cutoff the ring and close the distance on mobile tall boxers. He might not have been ready for that in 1986.
I agree, Tyson was green at that time, but he showed so much more ferocity in THAT fight than he ever did
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

Does everyone (Except Q) see Vitali as tougher for Tyson than Wlad based upon the chin problem?
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Does everyone (Except Q) see Vitali as tougher for Tyson than Wlad based upon the chin problem?
Yes and No.

Wlad would play it safe against Tyson (or at least try to). So he MAY last longer IF Vitali tries to do the macho with Tyson and brawls with him. Which means Tyson whoops Vitalis ass and possily stops him.

Vitali Tyson could look like Tyson - Berbick
Wlad Tyson - could look like Tyson-Smith or Tyson-Biggs
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

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Originally Posted by Azzer85 View Post
A lot of people talk about Tysons best fight as Spinks, i feel the Tyson from the Berbick fight is really underrated.

Who would you pick against THAT version of Tyson and why?
A lot of people say Ali's best fight was against cleveland williams - but how good was cleveland that night? was the big cat any better than 5 or 6 other contenders at that time? He did not represent the biggest test and neither did Berbick.

When a guy wins easy against an inferior foe he looks great because everything he tried worked and landed.

Tyson was a phenom but as "salty trunks" says he was still green because his talent (and match making) was such that he bypassed certain tests other ATG's would have already had and passed at that stage.

How good was berbick? I would say good. How good was berbick compared to the best in history? Not that good. How good was berbick at the time he fought Tyson? As good as anyone around but not realy any better than another 5 or 6 other heavyweights at that time. Its still a great win but Tyson had it his own way, you can say that is because Tyson was so good but you can also say it was because Tyson had it his own way.

A good strong ATG should cream a contender who is no better than 5 or 6 other contenders and this has always been the case. That berbick was one of 2 others to hold a belt does not make him any better IMO than half of the active contenders that year.
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

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Originally Posted by Azzer85 View Post
I agree, Tyson was green at that time, but he showed so much more ferocity in THAT fight than he ever did
Its too difficult to judge based on the style of Berbick. Tyson might have had a completely different approach if he wasnt facing a fighter who decided to try and trade with him.

His performance against Tyrell Biggs was equally impressive in that he was fighting a very skilled tall mover and he did a great job making Biggs miss those shots so he could get close to him and eventually take his legs away. That in my opinion is far more impressive than beating a guy who stood in front of him and didnt have the ammunition to make Tyson think twice before he came forward.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

Nicolay Valuev , Vitali Klitschko , George Foreman , Henry Akinwande . These guys were no Berbick .
Neither were McCall & Tua but Tyson could have won a decision against them .
Remember that Tyson did not come close 2 stopping Tucker & Smith , Tua & McCall were each harder punchers and more durable than each of these guys .
Corrie Sanders hurt every man he ever fought against prior , during and even fairly past his prime except from Nate Tubbs .
Tyson was no Nate Tubbs and lacked his size . Tubbs had a very good chin and absorbed a few shots from Tua until finally succumbing 2d preasure as expected .

Last edited by frankenfrank; 11-08-2011 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: Heavyweights you would pick against Tyson From The Berbick Fight

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When a guy wins easy against an inferior foe he looks great because everything he tried worked and landed.
Like Dempsey against Willard?
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