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Old 11-12-2011, 05:52 AM   #31
TheGreatA
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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Moore wasn't able to knock Lavorante down even once though. He just wore him down gradually.
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Lavorante was apparently only kept up by the ring ropes at the end.
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Old 11-12-2011, 06:03 AM   #32
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

Good posts Mongoose.
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:00 AM   #33
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

Of course it was tested ... he had a ton of fights and overall did extremely well ... I wouldn't call him a devastating puncher at heavyweight but he was dangerous and take you out ... look, he did floor Marciano even thought he caught him perfect coming in ... Archie was an extremely smart, dangerous guy ...
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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Lavorante was apparently only kept up by the ring ropes at the end.
And? There was no knockdown.

LA Times:
Argentine Alejandro Lavorante, carried out on a stretcher after being battered into a 10-round KO defeat by fantastic Archie Moore Friday night at the Sports Arena, recovered quickly in his dressing room and left the auditorium under his own power.

In the opinion of examining ringside physicians, Dr. Robert Rocke and Dr. Jack Useem of the California Athletic Commission, Lavorante was merely temporarily exhausted and didn't need to be removed to a hospital.
...
Lavorante miraculously never left his feet, but was bleeding badly, stunned, gasping for breath and a finished fighter when Referee Tommy Hart stopped it at 38 secs. of the 10th round.
...
Lavo never really appeared to be seriously hurt, but Dr. Rocke ordered a stretcher as a precautionary measure.
...
Referee Hart said the only blow landed in the 10th was a right to the chest and that it was more exhaustion than Archie's final punches that brought on the collapse.
...
After being helped to his stool by Hart at the end of the fight, Lavorante sat upright for nearly a minute, then was stretched out on the canvas by his cornerman so that he could breath better.



Archie Moore:
"With my greater experience, I knew I could wear him down, I tired him out with body punches. They weren't spectacular, but I was digging away constantly.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:34 AM   #35
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

The reports also say that he collapsed against the ropes which brought about the stoppage. Afterwards, Moore helped him to his corner and Lavorante collapsed again.

The event was played down because boxing was getting bad press at the time due to Paret being in coma and eventually dying. Lavorante died himself in a ring incident not long after.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:52 AM   #36
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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So did Moore have a better power than Walcott?
Yes. Hatchetman Sheppard told Rocky Alkazoff that Archie was the hardest puncher with both hands he ever competed against. He fought both men twice, and each in back to back bouts at Baltimore to end 1945 (Walcott), and begin 1946 (Moore). He did say "Walcott was the best. Jersey hit like a mule and knew how to draw you in," but he seems pretty clear about who had better power.

Ted Lowry also made it pretty clear that Moore was the hardest puncher he ever fought. Don't forget that Archie is the only man to take out Whitehurst twice, the second time right before Bert went the limit 2X with Liston. (Whitehurst also UDed Satterfield over ten and dropped a second ten round decision to Harold Johnson going into the Moore rematch.)
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:55 AM   #37
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

Couldn't crack an egg ..

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VeLZwmdZWY[/ame]

go to 7:35 mark ..
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:06 AM   #38
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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Yes. Hatchetman Sheppard told Rocky Alkazoff that Archie was the hardest puncher with both hands he ever competed against. He fought both men twice
I read this also. I wouldn't see it as definitive, but it's definitely interesting.
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:21 AM   #39
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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I read this also. I wouldn't see it as definitive, but it's definitely interesting.
Certainly it's anecdotal, and that's why corroborating testimony like Lowry's should be sought. What's not anecdotal of course is that Archie's knockout record is in the Guinness book (along with Lamar Clark's 44-0 knockout streak).
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:42 AM   #40
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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The reports also say that he collapsed against the ropes which brought about the stoppage. Afterwards, Moore helped him to his corner and Lavorante collapsed again.

The event was played down because boxing was getting bad press at the time due to Paret being in coma and eventually dying. Lavorante died himself in a ring incident not long after.
He sagged against the ropes, no knockdown. He didn't collapse in his corner, he was stretched on the floor by his second as a precaution measure - for better breathing.

The beating he received from Moore had no connection whatsoever with his death 2 years later.
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Old 11-12-2011, 01:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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He sagged against the ropes, no knockdown. He didn't collapse in his corner, he was stretched on the floor by his second as a precaution measure - for better breathing.
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The beating he received from Moore had no connection whatsoever with his death 2 years later.
He suffered a blood clot in his brain 6 months later against John Riggins in a fight where he did not take much punishment. He went into coma and later died. I'd believe that the accumulation of damage over his career, much of which may have been caused by the Moore fight, had a lot to do with his eventual death.
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Old 11-12-2011, 02:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

I quoted the local newspaper next-day report, see above. Lavorante didn't collapse in his corner.

Moore had done almost all of his damage to the body, not to the head.
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:30 PM   #43
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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Couldn't crack an egg ..

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go to 7:35 mark ..
HeGrant,

How do you rate Marcianos chin against sub 190lb fighters?
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:41 PM   #44
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

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I quoted the local newspaper next-day report, see above. Lavorante didn't collapse in his corner.

Moore had done almost all of his damage to the body, not to the head.
There are also reports that say he slumped down to the floor from his stool. Obviously he was helped to a better position though. He sure doesn't look well in the pictures.

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Another picture:

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Old 11-12-2011, 09:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: Was Moore's power tested at HW?

Archie was a puncher but that being said he was also a tricky,cagey guy who also knew had to coast and win at his own pace...after 100-200 fights I think you qualify as qualified....Walcott was more of a brutal one punch guy but did not go for the kill all of the time, he had great legs and had great ring generalship its just that he made his opponents walk into some beautiful traps and beautiful punches, he did it to Charles,Louis 2X and Marciano and not many where able to drop these men...very capable in there time and as far as knowledge there is no fighter alive today that knows what they forgot
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