Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-13-2011, 07:56 PM   #61
steve w
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 408
vCash: 500
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

I'm agreeing with the "Flea", If Monzon does not dictate the pace early, it's all over, hard to see him keeping Greb off him, even then, I think Harry brings a little too much to this fight.
steve w is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-13-2011, 08:02 PM   #62
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,935
vCash: 500
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Yeah, Greb could definitely win this fight...he might even be a favourite, I don't know...but freaks like that, they don't happen. Flea Man, I want you to imagine Robinson had never been filmed. Imagine the weight of testimony that exists to his greatness (dozens of Burts!), his paper resume and the newspaper reports of the time...then film surfaces.

Do you think you would be surprised to see that Robinson at best looks slightly better than Duran, Leonard, Jones (or whoever)? Don't you think you'd be expecting something more?

The only "anomalies" that exist in boxing are Greb and maybe Barbados Joe...both fighters who exist before film.

Greb may be the greatest fighter to ever have lived, he really might be, but he was still just a human male boxer, and quite possibly one that was not quite as good as Robinson - or Monzon.
Mc ,now watching the football games with a brew in hand. But targeted pest that I am,you say that Greb" might not be an an anomaly", and just a human being. Yes he was just a "human being " who left a legacy of 300 fights against far bigger men than Carlos Monzon fought. This "human being" left a resume that yes might i dare say, Carlos Mozon never equaled. Let us be real M, there is no way we can truly know who would win between fighters of different generations. But one way I would say
or mention this appropo question to you. Harry Greb fought 300 bouts as we know, and beat great men much bigger than him NUMEROUS times, such as {it bears repeating],Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran, Jack Dillon, Tommy Gibbons, Battling Levinsky, Kid Norfolk, Maxie Rosenbloom, Billy Miske, Bill Brennan HW [4 times], Willie Meehan, a prime Mickey Walker,
Gunboat Smith ,a powerful tall and heavier right hand puncher[Monzon ?],
in his illustrious career as a MW. And for the last part of his career, with the sight of one eye. If this man was not an "anomaly", [different from the norm],than who in tarnation was ? Do you think that Carlos Monzon if he
fought all these bigger HOFamers, would have ever beaten these bigger Light Heavy's that Harry Greb did in his illustrioius career of THREE HUNDRED BOUTS ? I think not. Now back to the football game ...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 08:30 PM   #63
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,628
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Greb's career reads like science fiction. It's so hard to get a grip on him. Enigmatic hardly begins to describe him.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 09:22 PM   #64
laxpdx
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,389
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

I like Greb by clear UD. Just far too tough.
laxpdx is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 09:39 PM   #65
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,935
vCash: 500
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Greb's career reads like science fiction. It's so hard to get a grip on him. Enigmatic hardly begins to describe him.
S, you are so correct. His life and career,seems like a science fiction tale .
This is why it is so difficult for today's posters to properly appreciate his amazing career. He seems too good to be true. I first heard about Harry Greb, when I was a young kid, and asked my dad "who was the best fighter you ever saw"? He mentioned the name Harry Greb. I asked "why him" ?
He then told me the fight he saw in 1922 at MSG, when Gene Tunney ,an idol of NYC,where my dad worked, fought this out of towner Harry Greb
of Pittsburgh. He said that Tunney took such a beating from this perpetual motion machine,and he never saw so much blood shed by a fighter. He said always to me that Greb was the best fighter he had ever seen, even after years later,when he and I saw Ray Robinson as a great welterweight.
And all these years after reading about his amazing exploits in the ring,whipping all those great lightheavy's in a 300 bout career, minus the eyesight in one eye,the last few years, I too believe in this once in a lifetime fighter. He was the "real" original...Cheers S.
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 10:08 PM   #66
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,897
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Boys,
You could all save yourself alotta time by focusing on Greb/Tunney 4 in Cleveland Sep 1924. The majority of neutral Cleveland and Loraine paps said HARRY WON!!
I have them all. Jim Jab of the Pittsburgh Press, who Harry hated and vice a versa apparently...also said Harry won. Film of Gene in his 1924 form vs Carp shows one hellva-hellva fighting machine. Years later Mohammed Ali with messers Howard Cosel interviewing, said in re Gene taking apart Carp
Whoa who this guy?? He's a white Ali!! Today he'd be champ!

Last edited by SLAKKA; 11-13-2011 at 10:11 PM. Reason: typo
SLAKKA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 10:57 PM   #67
Saintpat
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,220
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
S, you are so correct. His life and career,seems like a science fiction tale .
This is why it is so difficult for today's posters to properly appreciate his amazing career. He seems too good to be true. I first heard about Harry Greb, when I was a young kid, and asked my dad "who was the best fighter you ever saw"? He mentioned the name Harry Greb. I asked "why him" ?
He then told me the fight he saw in 1922 at MSG, when Gene Tunney ,an idol of NYC,where my dad worked, fought this out of towner Harry Greb
of Pittsburgh. He said that Tunney took such a beating from this perpetual motion machine,and he never saw so much blood shed by a fighter. He said always to me that Greb was the best fighter he had ever seen, even after years later,when he and I saw Ray Robinson as a great welterweight.
And all these years after reading about his amazing exploits in the ring,whipping all those great lightheavy's in a 300 bout career, minus the eyesight in one eye,the last few years, I too believe in this once in a lifetime fighter. He was the "real" original...Cheers S.
You are indeed an expert historian, but to guffaw and act like Monzon would have no chance against Greb, please.

Yes, 300 fights. Some wins over a lot of great and darned good fighters. But he also lost 20 times and had 17 draws, even got dropped in a newspaper draw by 3-5 Ted Jamieson when Greb was, what, like a 200-fight veteran.

Not a science fiction monster. Not supernatural. Not invulnerable. Great, yes, but then so was Monzon.

And I think it's not quite right to characterize Greb as a middleweight. Yes, he made that weight and fought at it, but from what I can see of the fights where weights are listed in the second half of his career he fights at 165 or over as often as not -- probably more often. More like a small light heavy by his day's standards than a true middle. Monzon was a natural middleweight.

With a 16 percent knockout percentage, Greb isn't knocking Monzon out. So it's a matter of style, stamina and skill. I don't think anyone is going to outclass Monzon, so we're talking about a war of attrition.

Who would win? We don't have enough evidence to even venture a fair guess without video, but it ain't no mismatch.
Saintpat is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:02 PM   #68
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,897
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

[quote=Saintpat;11245834]You are indeed an expert historian, but to guffaw and act like Monzon would have no chance against Greb, please.

Yes, 300 fights. Some wins over a lot of great and darned good fighters. But he also lost 20 times and had 17 draws, even got dropped in a newspaper draw by 3-5 Ted Jamieson when Greb was, what, like a 200-fight veteran.
Greb canceled his honeymoon to fight Jameson. Focus on what he did to Ted in the rematch. Ted was lucky to get out of the ring in one piece.
SLAKKA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:10 PM   #69
Saintpat
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,220
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

[quote=SLAKKA;11245884]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintpat View Post
You are indeed an expert historian, but to guffaw and act like Monzon would have no chance against Greb, please.

Yes, 300 fights. Some wins over a lot of great and darned good fighters. But he also lost 20 times and had 17 draws, even got dropped in a newspaper draw by 3-5 Ted Jamieson when Greb was, what, like a 200-fight veteran.
Greb canceled his honeymoon to fight Jameson. Focus on what he did to Ted in the rematch. Ted was lucky to get out of the ring in one piece.
Jamieson was 3-5. Greb should have been able to beat Ted and his meat at the same time if he's all that.
Saintpat is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:16 PM   #70
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,897
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

u don't understand the fighting in those days sick outta condition u name it
Thats a far cry of TJs record. Only whats on boxrec
SLAKKA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:21 PM   #71
Saintpat
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,220
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAKKA View Post
u don't understand the fighting in those days sick outta condition u name it
Thats a far cry of TJs record. Only whats on boxrec
Three and Five.

I understand guys who get deposited on their posteriors by 3-5 guys, and draw with them, are not unbeatable by the likes of Monzon.

If you're one of the four or five best boxers in the history of the sport, as some maintain Greb was, you don't get knocked down by and draw with a 3-5 Ted Jamieson.

Not on your honeymoon.

Not if you are suffering from malaria.

Not if you had green eggs and ham for breakfast.
Saintpat is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:45 PM   #72
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,150
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintpat View Post
You are indeed an expert historian, but to guffaw and act like Monzon would have no chance against Greb, please.

Yes, 300 fights. Some wins over a lot of great and darned good fighters. But he also lost 20 times and had 17 draws, even got dropped in a newspaper draw by 3-5 Ted Jamieson when Greb was, what, like a 200-fight veteran.

Not a science fiction monster. Not supernatural. Not invulnerable. Great, yes, but then so was Monzon.

And I think it's not quite right to characterize Greb as a middleweight. Yes, he made that weight and fought at it, but from what I can see of the fights where weights are listed in the second half of his career he fights at 165 or over as often as not -- probably more often. More like a small light heavy by his day's standards than a true middle. Monzon was a natural middleweight.

With a 16 percent knockout percentage, Greb isn't knocking Monzon out. So it's a matter of style, stamina and skill. I don't think anyone is going to outclass Monzon, so we're talking about a war of attrition.

Who would win? We don't have enough evidence to even venture a fair guess without video, but it ain't no mismatch.

What makes him an expert historian?
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:51 PM   #73
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,897
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintpat View Post
Three and Five.

I understand guys who get deposited on their posteriors by 3-5 guys, and draw with them, are not unbeatable by the likes of Monzon.

If you're one of the four or five best boxers in the history of the sport, as some maintain Greb was, you don't get knocked down by and draw with a 3-5 Ted Jamieson.

Not on your honeymoon.

Not if you are suffering from malaria.

Not if you had green eggs and ham for breakfast.
how much cash do u wanna put on jamason behing 3/5??
i could use your $$$
SLAKKA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2011, 11:53 PM   #74
SLAKKA
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,897
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

And what makes Harry 31 yrs old at 159lbs vs Walker anything but a middleweight????
SLAKKA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2011, 12:10 AM   #75
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,935
vCash: 500
Default Re: Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintpat View Post
You are indeed an expert historian, but to guffaw and act like Monzon would have no chance against Greb, please.

Yes, 300 fights. Some wins over a lot of great and darned good fighters. But he also lost 20 times and had 17 draws, even got dropped in a newspaper draw by 3-5 Ted Jamieson when Greb was, what, like a 200-fight veteran.

Not a science fiction monster. Not supernatural. Not invulnerable. Great, yes, but then so was Monzon.

And I think it's not quite right to characterize Greb as a middleweight. Yes, he made that weight and fought at it, but from what I can see of the fights where weights are listed in the second half of his career he fights at 165 or over as often as not -- probably more often. More like a small light heavy by his day's standards than a true middle. Monzon was a natural middleweight.

With a 16 percent knockout percentage, Greb isn't knocking Monzon out. So it's a matter of style, stamina and skill. I don't think anyone is going to outclass Monzon, so we're talking about a war of attrition.

Who would win? We don't have enough evidence to even venture a fair guess without video, but it ain't no mismatch.
What Do you mean that Harry Greb should not be "characterized as a middleweight ? When he fought Mickey Walker in 1925 for the middleweight title ,Greb weighed 158 pounds for the bout,just one year before his death. Greb at 5ft8" was a legitimate middleweight ,who always made the weight in his title bouts. Of course when he fought bigger LH's
he did not have to come in below 160,and fought a few pounds heavier.
Why shouldn't he ? But every fighter who does not have to make weight
is happy to come in a bout without depriving themselves for no reason.
Carlos Monzon was bigger than Greb. He was almost 6ft tall and weighed up to 166 pounds in some non-title bouts. Nothing wrong with that.
So Greb,when he had to fight as a middleweight did so til the end of his life...
The thread is Harry Greb v Carlos Monzon. Who wins,and not who outclasses the other.
P.S. Ted Jamieson was a light heavyweight, whilst Greb was a middleweight.
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013