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Old 11-12-2011, 06:35 AM   #1
McGrain
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Default Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

I think it might be, I know Foster was fragile and all, but it's still an amazing couple of rounds. Frazier's peak I think.

Foster comes out and immediately takes up position to move to his own left whilst selling a shitty little feint with his right foot. What's important to note is that Frazier buys the feint and still doesn't lose a step. That is he follows Foster out based on his feinting move but he still comes back quickly enough to pre cut the ring. Pause the film at 15 seconds.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZtRpq1t0xg[/ame]

Note that Frazier's left foot is outside of Foster's left. Frazier already knows where he's going to be and he gets there first. He's not guessing either, you'll have seen the jab on about 13 seconds that moves him out. Frazier is in total control of the opponent's moves, and it shapes Foster for the first left hook a moment later.

Foster now has a quick look at plan B which is to very gradually give ground and jab. Frazier slips every one of these and then he's head to head with Foster who hasn't bought himself any room due to Joe's head movement. He's pinned. At 25 seconds, Frazier has already shown how he's going to bust up both of Foster's plans for the fight.

More movement follows, and if you stop the fight again at around 37 secs you'd see again that perturbing sight, Frazier with his right foot outside of Foster's left as Foster circles left, meaning he's always going to be one step ahead, literally.

A hard clipping left hook and a right to the body before the first minute is up and Foster is a paniced a bit. His jab doesn't work, his movement is seeing him come up behind, every time. From about one minute on, Frazier starts to jab with Foster. Frazier is in such total control of distance and real-estate that he can do this, he's inside Foster's reach whenever he fancies, so why not? Frazier begins to outjab Foster, which must have been disturbing for him - in their famous cross-country drive, Frazier apparently nearly drove off the road when Ali accused him of "having no jab", and you can see why here, it's a very short punch, the very definition of "crisp", landed before Foster really knows it's been thrown.

Foster isn't running yet, but it's coming. Frazier is jabbing with him at distance, but whilst coming in, so his punches are the ones with the steam. At middle distance, he's starting to work up the hook now and when they come inside, it's all Frazier. Between 2:15 and 2:30 Foster misses with all but one punch and then Frazier hurts him for the first time. Foster spends the rest of the round doing exactly what Joe wants him to do, which is fight.

There's something really cool about the way Durham stands talking to Frazier at the end of the break. They look like they've bumped into each-other on the street and are talking about the football game from that weekend. Frazier nods and does that other thing that is disturbing, that little half-run out to the middle of the ring like he can't wait - that must be no fun at all to see.

Foster runs from the beginning of the second. He knows I suppose that the first round (which Cossell bizarrely scores for Bob) was a total tactical disaster. Things are about to get worse as his "hop-scotch" routine goes badly out of the gate. Check out 3:20. Frazier gets sold by Foster's move, he misses widely with a jab as Foster slides to his right, but that's not what is important for the swarming pressure fighter. Pause it at 3:22 to see just how quickly Frazier has caught up with Foster. His left foot is again right on the money with Bob's leading foot and way ahead of his trailing foot. Foster's shimmey didn't buy him even half of one second.

This combination of head-movement and footwork has Foster completely at odds with himself and running is his only real remaining option outside of slugging with Frazier. As it turns out, it makes no odds because after jabbing Foster along the ropes the inevitable happens. The left hook isn't that much better than the one he landed in one, I don't think, it's just that Foster is rearing and retreating rather than tucked in.

I'm a fan of Foster (man and fighter) but I can't help it - I enjoy him see-sawing on the canvas. His pointing foot, the last remaining extremity he seems to have any control over looks like the wavering finger of a man trying to pick his assailant out of a police line-up, or a child selecting a balloon...in layman's terms he's proper ****ed as he tries to rock himself into a standing position. Frazier's follow-up bulling attack underlines his previous economy. The slow motion drop as Foster's body is disconnected from his senses is merely the cherry on top of a very impressive cake - my favourite swarming performance on film, at any weight. In short, that's how you do it.

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I ****ing love Joe Frazier.
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Hagler ripping into Hearns was also pretty ferocious...... Both were very close in weight too, just below the 160 mark....

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Old 11-12-2011, 09:41 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Great write-up, definitely my favorite Frazier fight apart from the one where he kicked Ali's ass.

I would actually consider Frazier-Quarry I to be perhaps an even better example of a swarmer - the only reason being that he grinds Quarry down (like a swarmer) - whereas Foster was simply destroyed in barely more than a round.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Yeah, CP, it's very abrupt - i just think it's literally faultless.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

No, Maske-Rocchigiani I.
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Old 11-12-2011, 01:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

“My toughest fight was Smokin’ Joe Frazier. It only lasted two round, but those two rounds seemed like a year with that sucker comin’ at you. He was the closest you could come to facing death. Why’d I take it? ****, the money!

Me and Joe were tight, before and after the fight. That’s why he gave me a shot, because we were friends, you know. Afterwards, I said, ‘Damn Joe, you tried to kill me in there!’ He said, ‘No, I didn’t try to kill you, but I couldn’t just let you come in and take my title.’ I said, ‘Well, I was gonna do more than just show up, Joe.’ He said, ‘Yeah, I know you was. That’s why I had to stop you in the second round.’ Joe and I, we went out to a bar and got drunk that night, yeah . . .”

-Bob Foster
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Old 11-12-2011, 01:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

I loved Armstrong's swarming on Ross.(Armstrong fan I am) Frazier's idol and I can tell with the similarities of the two.

Chavez against Camacho was brilliant too.

All three great inside fighters/swarmers and great fighters in general.
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Old 11-12-2011, 03:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

No one went through Foster like that ... Frazier was terrific and this was a prime performance ... slightly more impressive than Dempsey over Carpentier if you ask me ...
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Old 11-12-2011, 03:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

One of the best posts I've seen here on ESB, McGrain. Quality stuff.

As to the fight, I think it showed what kind of strength and power it was going to take to bring a guy like Frazier down. Unless you were George Foreman, you were in for a special brand of hell wen you went in against him.
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Old 11-12-2011, 03:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

You've made this thread before, I believe. I couldn't agree more, and I know we have our differences of opinion on certain subjects. Frazier-Foster is the quintessential example of Frazier using every ounce of effective energy through pressuring possible. I think that's an important distinction because some have criticized Frazier's head-movement for being repetitive and predictable.

And it's not just the head-movement in this fight. Check out around 51 seconds in. Frazier's catching Foster's jab with his glove, while closing the distance, getting his closer to position, and moving his head in case Foster follows up with anything more. Frazier might just have to be the most difficult swarmers in history to catch with with a 1-2. I mean that when a fighter tries to use his jab to blind you from the right hand coming. Frazier's always going to be in a different spot. I think that's why he actually had more trouble with the lead right hands from Quarry and Ali in Manilla then he ever did with a 1-2.
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Chavez against Rosario is the best pressure fighting i've ever seen. Every elite level heavyweight looked awesome against Foster, let's be honest.
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Old 11-12-2011, 04:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Henry Arnstrong at his best was the ultimate "swarmer". In close with his head under his opponents chin, throwing vicious streams of punches,with every punch in the book for a full 3 minutes for every round. And remember Henry Armstrong had FIVE times more bouts than Joe Frazier, without slowing down. A ring marvel if there ever was one....
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
“My toughest fight was Smokin’ Joe Frazier. It only lasted two round, but those two rounds seemed like a year with that sucker comin’ at you. He was the closest you could come to facing death. Why’d I take it? ****, the money!

Me and Joe were tight, before and after the fight. That’s why he gave me a shot, because we were friends, you know. Afterwards, I said, ‘Damn Joe, you tried to kill me in there!’ He said, ‘No, I didn’t try to kill you, but I couldn’t just let you come in and take my title.’ I said, ‘Well, I was gonna do more than just show up, Joe.’ He said, ‘Yeah, I know you was. That’s why I had to stop you in the second round.’ Joe and I, we went out to a bar and got drunk that night, yeah . . .”

-Bob Foster
Sorry to quote the whole post, but y'know...shitty way to go for a great, ferocious human being. Sad, like. And i'm a lil drunk. Great fighter, great guy. ****in cool little story, to be a bar fly that night...


Great original post Mac
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post

I ****ing love Joe Frazier.


what I like about this fight is It had nothing to do with Frazier being the bigger man. I really mean that, and Bob is a great fighter!

Frazier closes the faster man down and beats him to the punch by laying traps without thinking about it. Its second nature. the fighting rhythm he stalks foster with creates all the openings he needs and Frazier is so pin point that he is deadly at this time. This is prime frazier.

smoking Joe is so highly tuned that each roll of the shoulder and half stutter step automatically sends the opponent to respond in a way Frazier is instinctively ready for. His head movement systematically corresponds with his footing putting the weight onto the foot the next punch is being launched from whilst at the same time making his head less of a target. with the right timing it works perfectly. Joe does it so smoothly like a well oiled problem solving machine where each movement sends the opponent onto the next punch.

prime Frazier is so sharp. His timing and distance anticipation is so highly tuned during this time. Each move has a purpose and because he is an athlete in his prime Frazier’s reactions are cat like.

Foreman fought a different fighter entirely.
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is Frazier-Foster the best example of swarming pressure fighting on film?

Nice post,McGrain.But I can't accept that size had marginal bearing on the outcome of the result.Foster nailed Frazier hard,in the first round.There's a pic I think in Frazier's autobiography capturing the moment, immediately after Bob Foster landing on jaw,with the shock of that impact rippling across Joe's face.Joe just shrugged it off.

I think Joe came out at the start of the second round ,ready to finish the business.
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