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Old 11-14-2011, 11:09 AM   #46
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

Man, Carwin looked awful after that fight. I'm surprised JDS went near him to hug it out/shake hands.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:19 AM   #47
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Dos Santos isnt James Toney were you can wildy shoot half way across the octagon and take him down by his ankle. You have to set up a take down, by getting in a close effective range ala having to throw some strikes. I have rarely ever seen Dos Santos get taken down.

Carwin is a more accomplished wrestler and stronger than Cain,, look at what success he had at taking Dos Santos down (below) . Getting Junior down in less than 1 minute is just not going to happen. Cain was KTFO, end of story. "30 seconds is too long" Carwin did stand for 3 rounds and not get brutally KTFO. Although not by choice. Quit whining


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MMA fighters are such pussies.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:28 AM   #48
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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MMA fighters are such pussies.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:18 PM   #49
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Originally Posted by TerryESB View Post
Dos Santos isnt James Toney were you can wildy shoot half way across the octagon and take him down by his ankle. You have to set up a take down, by getting in a close effective range ala having to throw some strikes. I have rarely ever seen Dos Santos get taken down.

Carwin is a more accomplished wrestler and stronger than Cain,, look at what success he had at taking Dos Santos down (below) . Getting Junior down in less than 1 minute is just not going to happen. Cain was KTFO, end of story. "30 seconds is too long" Carwin did stand for 3 rounds and not get brutally KTFO. Although not by choice. Quit whining


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Cain is a young, fast, explosive and fit wrestler who can very easily transition from strikes to grappling at a very fast pace.

JDS is a stud but even Cain admits that he wanted to establish his strikes and go for takedowns when there was an opportunity. That was wrong. Cain needed to treat this as a style vs style match up - wrestler vs striker. Every second the fight was standing he should have felt uncomfortable.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Originally Posted by TerryESB View Post
Dos Santos isnt James Toney were you can wildy shoot half way across the octagon and take him down by his ankle. You have to set up a take down, by getting in a close effective range ala having to throw some strikes. I have rarely ever seen Dos Santos get taken down.

Carwin is a more accomplished wrestler and stronger than Cain,, look at what success he had at taking Dos Santos down (below) . Getting Junior down in less than 1 minute is just not going to happen. Cain was KTFO, end of story. "30 seconds is too long" Carwin did stand for 3 rounds and not get brutally KTFO. Although not by choice. Quit whining


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Excellent post.

I have to admit I never thought I would say such a thing about one of your posts, though.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

Cain was also an extremely sore loser at the end of the fight. Really makes me root for him a lot less.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:37 PM   #52
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Ha!
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:44 AM   #53
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Cool Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Originally Posted by TerryESB View Post
Carwin is a more accomplished wrestler and stronger than Cain,, look at what success he had at taking Dos Santos down (below) . Getting Junior down in less than 1 minute is just not going to happen. Cain was KTFO, end of story. "30 seconds is too long" Carwin did stand for 3 rounds and not get brutally KTFO. Although not by choice. Quit whining
JDS moved the same way and made the same mistakes in this fight as he did in the Cain fight.

The main thing with Carwin and Cain is that both might be above average wrestler and can do their single and double leg takedowns. What they are not is, good submission fighters. Cain especially has zero submission wins and has shown just the very very basic submission game.

JDS isnt comfortable on his back, although he did look at a submission move in the first second of the fight going to ground. JDS has a good ground game although rarely used, his level is nowhere near that of the other guys like Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, Bigfoot, Josh, Guram or the countless other HW's.

BORKED
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:08 AM   #54
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

cain looked very shook before, during the walkin in and during the start of round one. i dont think he was mentally ready to fight jds including everything else
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:31 AM   #55
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

Lucky pick, it won't happen again.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:42 AM   #56
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Originally Posted by monaroCountry View Post
JDS moved the same way and made the same mistakes in this fight as he did in the Cain fight.

The main thing with Carwin and Cain is that both might be above average wrestler and can do their single and double leg takedowns. What they are not is, good submission fighters. Cain especially has zero submission wins and has shown just the very very basic submission game.

JDS isnt comfortable on his back, although he did look at a submission move in the first second of the fight going to ground. JDS has a good ground game although rarely used, his level is nowhere near that of the other guys like Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, Bigfoot, Josh, Guram or the countless other HW's.

BORKED
Dos Santos started his professional career at 21 after "3 months of training".He had no money working as dishwasher for "150 bucks per month". Did you people see that on the UFC primetime prefight hype video? It is inspirational, the man had nothing at all.

Yeah, he lost in that video. I think it is fair to assume he has probably imoproved his bjj quite a bit training with Nogueira since that time?
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:31 AM   #57
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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The Kongo fight. Kongo was throwing straight telegraphed punches and they were landing. I mean we are talking Kongo here......KONGO!!!! Add to the the Lesnar fight; even lesnar tagged him not with power punches but setup punches - slow cumbersome and without power.

I wasn't sure if Cain would get close enough but I saw JDS as a prime Liddell in the fight who would dominate with punches and nulify takedowns.

I am generally superstitious so I don't excessively debate fights but this is how I saw it.
Just watched it - it's pretty shocking to a boxing fan how raw those fighters looked standing up. I know there's a lot more to mma, but the knockdown punch was a true hail-mary style affair. Both guys, while in good shape, also look like they could do with a nutritionist to get in truly spectacular shape.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:38 AM   #58
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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your just mad that my boy nick ****ing killed your wet dreamed hero bj penny
you've certainly got a way with words....
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:31 AM   #59
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Stay out of the MMA forum
Why? Last time I checked there were no rules on ESB about fighter bashing, just trolling, and there is nothing to indicate that I've trolled anybody. I offer my insight on match-ups and yes, in my opinion taking a punch is pretty crucial in sports that involve punching and I do highlight that. I broke down the match, tried to kill some of the unjustified hype surrounding Dos Santos, and mentioned that Cain has poor punch resistance and I get banned for trolling? Why is it OK for me to say the same ****ing things on the general boxing forum, ON A BOARD THAT IS PRIMARILY ABOUT BOXING, but if I do it here on a subforum that almost no one gives a flying **** in a rolling doughnut about, it's "trolling".

That's ridiculous, particularly so when you have legitimate trolls like Ai-Edy who enters every thread to say, "your favorite fighter ****in sucks bro, I'm a badass and I train with Cesar Gracie, you wanna disagree? COME AT ME BRO!". That's trolling. All I do is express an opinion that some find unpopular because they can't deal with the fact that all Chins are not created equally. I'm sure I'm probably going to be banned for this because you know, mods are real cool guys that never allow the only bit of power they've ever had in life to go to their heads, but that's fine because who the hell would want to speak in a public forum where they aren't allowed to say what they think simply because someone else can subjectively refer to it as "trolling". So, either respond intelligently and explain what rule covers my supposed transgression or ban me for having done nothing objectionable, illegal, or offensive.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:07 PM   #60
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Default Re: The reason I picked JDS to beat Cain.....

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat View Post
Not aggressively enough. Waiting 30 seconds was too long. Both Shane and Cain have too much belief in their hands. Rightly so against nearly every fighter on the planet minus one or two. One of those exceptions is JDS.

JDS is hard to take down but its easier for him to stand up when he isn't fighting off a non stop stream of takedown attempts.

FYI - I'm a JDS fan and have been for quite a while. However its easy to see Cain thought too much of his standup and not enough of JDS.
Agree with this Achilles, Cain and Carwin should of went into their fights looking to shoot at every opportunity they got rather than attempting to stand and wait for the chance. They should of went into the fight like Sonnen where everything he does is usually just to get it to the ground. JDS might have great takedown defence but when someone is constantly going for the shoot the defence will start to crack also JDS wouldn't of been able to implement his stand up effectively.

As you said both thought their own stand up would trouble Dos Santos but in truth they played into his biggest strength.

Props to Dos Santos as everyone has said and like everyone was saying before Kongo proved that chin could be cracked he done it multiple times in Germany and in truth if he had better ground striking he would of finished Cain off.
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