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Old 11-13-2011, 07:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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Context? Come on, Greatness should be above such silly, naive dribble... Greatness is special, royalty, in the context of a weight division; once in a generation.

You confuse excellence with greatness. You can be a superb fighter, without being a great, IMO.

I consider Greatness should be reserved to the 40 or so greatest fighters to lace up the gloves. Otherwise you devalue the word.
I feel differently, but fair enough.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:02 PM   #17
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I feel differently, but fair enough.
So you wish to devalue Greatness?
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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So you wish to devalue Greatness?
Yeah, I'm out to get all supposed great fighters. I will devalue them all by putting them in the same bracket as lesser talents like Yori Boy Campas & Andrew Golota. Ray Robinson and Willie Pep are in a world of shit from now on.

Spread the word.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:10 PM   #19
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Ray Robinson and Willie Pep are in a world of shit from now on.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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Yeah, I'm out to get all supposed great fighters. I will devalue them all by putting them in the same bracket as lesser talents like Yori Boy Campas & Andrew Golota. Ray Robinson and Willie Pep are in a world of shit from now on.

Spread the word.
LOL, Addie I think you are quality poster, and you know your stuff. I will hands up admit to being a dinosaur, stuck in my ways, and not prepared to change.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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I know I have a strong sense of what Great should be; but are really calling Barrera, Gonzales, Yuh and Moorer Great?
Barrera was great.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:16 PM   #22
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Barrera was great.
Barrera was excellent, I loved him as a fighter, and will defend (and excuse) him to the end; but he failed to reach greatness, period.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:19 PM   #23
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LOL, Addie I think you are quality poster, and you know your stuff. I will hands up admit to being a dinosaur, atuck in my ways, and not prepared to change.
Cheers brah.

I fully respect and understand your stance on this thing, I just don't see the point in arguing about it. What purpose would it serve?

I would like to hear someone make a case for Benitez though. Like you, I'm not fully sold on the idea that he deserves to be ranked as highly as the consensus seems to have him. Any takers?
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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Barrera was excellent, I loved him as a fighter, and will defend (and excuse) him to the end; but he failed to reach greatness, period.
Do you consider JMM great?
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:28 PM   #25
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Do you consider JMM great?
I'd be surprised if he did, Red. TBooze has some very high standards. I'd love to see a picture of his wife.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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Johnny Tapia with Paulie Ayala.
Marco Antonio Barrera with Junior Jones
Bernard Hopkins with Jermain Taylor
Humberto Gonzalez with Kwang Sun Kim and Yul-Woo Lee
Myung Woo Yuh with Leo Gamez and Alberto Mario De Marco
Ricardo Lopez with Rosendo Alvarez
Jung Koo Chang with Jorge Cano
Bert Cooper gave both Michael Moorer and Evander Holyfield hell.
Julio Cesar Chavez with Juan La Porte

I don't think most of those really fit in the context of original post, especially where the fighters only met once.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:32 PM   #27
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I don't think most of those really fit in the context of original post, especially where the fighters only met once.
Perhaps not, Lora.

That is one weird looking dude in your avatar. Explain.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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Cheers brah.

I fully respect and understand your stance on this thing, I just don't see the point in arguing about it. What purpose would it serve?

I would like to hear someone make a case for Benitez though. Like you, I'm not fully sold on the idea that he deserves to be ranked as highly as the consensus seems to have him. Any takers?
You are very respectful Addie, so I am going to play Devil's Advocate, and give you your debate.

Wilfred Benitez was 17 years old when he beat arguably the finest 140lber ever in Antonio Cervantes. He then followed this up by beating the criminally underrated lineage 147lbs champ Carlos Palomino.

After beating Harold Weston; Benitez was not yet 21, but 38-0-1 and a two division lineage champ.

Then Wilfred gave near prime Ray Leonard hell, before he steamrolled with one punch the previously never stopped at 154lbs Maurice Hope, to become a three time champ. He followed this up beating an unbeaten Carlos Santos and a 74-2 Roberto Duran; all before his 24th birthday...

Last edited by TBooze; 11-13-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

I don't like the Robinson-Turpin example; that's a styls thing, and Turpin, though enigmatic and troubled, was very good inded on his best day.


I would put forth Manuel Ortiz, who had worlds of problems in non-title fights. The reasons are obvious; he lived high on the hog and didn't take these bouts seriously, but still........
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Great fighters who had problems with lesser opponents

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Do you consider JMM great?
Marquez is one hell of a fighter, but as mentioned, I do not consider him great. That is not to demean his achievements, as I have ton of respect for the Mexican.
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